When it’s all said and done, the biggest victory in the West Coast’s dominant 2024 run, bolstered by new ScHoolboy Q and Vince Staples albums plus a fiery yet unitary Kendrick Lamar beef, might just be the slew of new artists that emerge in its wake. Devin Malik is leading that charge with a big smile on his face and one of the most versatile sets of talents and sounds you’ll hear this summer. The Philly native was raised in Southern California’s Inland Empire, and made a name for himself by producing for artists like Isaiah Rashad, Amindi, and most recently Q on his album BLUE LIPS. Now, this unpredictable and uncompromising sonic career has led to one of the most hard-hitting and creatively malleable albums of the year so far.
DEADSTOCK is Devin Malik’s new record, bolstered by bouncy singles like “BACKSTAGE” and gritty teasers like “LINK DUCKER.” On it, he speaks on his turbulent and self-conscious navigations through the music industry, his grounded lifestyle with way too many overzealous women in it, and his continued focus on representing all the different parts of his upbringing in as vivid and varied of a painting as possible. It’s vibrant, zany, wall-to-wall fun, and refreshingly risky. In this exclusive interview with HNHH, Malik discusses witnessing K.Dot’s “Pop Out” earlier this month, the many lessons he’s been blessed to learn, and his next ambitions as a sonic director, filmmaker, and potential computer scientist. You don’t need a doctorate to hear the wealth of ideas and approaches he brings to the table.
This interview, conducted via Zoom call on Monday, June 24, has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
The HNHH Devin Malik Interview
HNHH: Devin, thanks so much for being here! I wanted to start by asking about what you’ve been doing these days waiting for DEADSTOCK to drop. Are you ironing out the finer details, trying to celebrate early, or just going about your day as usual?
Devin Malik: Honestly, I’m definitely not celebrating. I’m not one of those types of guys that I want a big glory rush or something. *laughs* But I’ve been really just still in the studio, just doing normal everyday things. Obviously, like interviews and whatnot, doing the rollout and that kinds of stuff. But my days look pretty much the same, man. Wake up, hit the gym, hit the studio, go to bed.
I took the title DEADSTOCK to maybe mean a couple of different things. Mainly, I think of unsold inventory being discontinued for whatever reason, but I also think about farm tools or meat products as opposed to livestock. Not to spoil the album too much, but can you talk about why that title in particular kind of resonates with you and whether or not you also looked at it through different ways on the project?
You hit it on the note with the first one. It’s hard to find, rare, discontinued. I just feel that way as an artist because I get so many different flavors and genres on this project that I feel like it’s a lost art in today’s artists. Like, they find one sound that works and they just abuse it. Which I’m not mad at, but I just feel like I’m in a rare bracket. That’s why I really named it that, honestly.
You described DEADSTOCK on social media as “an audible horror film” with “lust, rage and comedy.” Even though that obviously comes off a lot in the production, I feel like your vocal delivery was also a big part of that on the album. Outside of your musical inspirations and knowledge, what else inspired you within film or other art forms in terms of how you used your voice on the album?
Well, I’m a Blumhouse guy. For people that don’t know that, this guy named Jason Blum, he runs a production company, Blumhouse. They do all types of horror films, like f***ing Split, Happy Death Day… I’m drawing blanks right now, but they do a lot of that. So I draw a lot of inspiration from that and just, like, how his mind and how their whole operation runs. I’ve got a lot of inspo from that, for sure. And I put it into my music somehow, in stories I tell or even little effects I use in the music.
Going off of the “comedy” description, do you have a funniest bar on the album or a moment in particular, while you were recording it or during the creation of it, that prompts that comedic description from you for the album?
Honestly, I’m just a very, very funny guy and I’m a funny, strange guy in general. So I just wanted to put that across into music. I don’t think there’s a specific line, but I feel like there’s always little stuff in there that kind of makes it funny because I don’t want to be serious all the time. So it’s not like I even went in with that intention, but when I listen to the album back, there’s definitely some comedic relief in here in some of these weird stories.
Especially with a lot of the romantic angles that you present on songs like “STRIPPERS” and “MOONLIGHT,” I feel like there were some funny jabs in there.
*laughs* Yeah, “MOONLIGHT” is a funny one for sure, that whole song.
You started off selling beats and working with Isaiah Rashad, Amindi, REASON, ScHoolboy Q, all these great artists, and I always find it interesting when the rapper-producer gets to flex both muscles in a way. Since you started taking your own raps more seriously, have you noticed that you’ve changed your production approach or think about the processes of producing and rapping differently? Or have all these things just always been in your head?
I wouldn’t say I changed my approach. But I definitely know what I personally want out of the music. So making it my own project, rather than producing for others, I have complete creative control over my own vision rather than it being predicated towards someone else’s sound, or obviously, whatever they’re trying to get across. It’s kind of easier for me, because I don’t need anyone to talk to. I don’t need anyone, it’s just complete tunnel vision. So I kind of enjoy it more, in a way.
In an interview with The Nuance, you said that your production style really depends on what your other collaborator wants, or what you agree upon together. On DEADSTOCK, you apply that mentality to the different sides of yourself. Do you feel like you have a signature sound for yourself that you want to prioritize moving forward? Are you still excited about molding yourself to different approaches and genres and still having that versatility?
I don’t think I’ll ever have, quote-unquote, a particular sound because I just get bored too easily. So the next one won’t sound like the next one, or like the next one. But what I have learned through this process is just finding a particular tone of voice that I really like. And I think that was the hardest part about all of this and making this.
On a quick note, during that same interview, you also hinted at maybe completing your computer science degree one day. Is that still a goal for you? Are things too busy right now?
*laughs* Things are 100% too busy right now. But I be trying to knock out a class here or there when I can. Like, right now, I’m in two classes, but all online. So, on some summer-type s**t. But yeah, I definitely still want to do that. Whether it takes me ten years, five years, 15 years, it’s just something I really want. I still love computer science.
As I understand it, you’re now officially signed to TDE as a producer after having worked with so much of the team for so long. What do you hope to learn the most from this process? What excites you about being able to contribute to the label’s artistry and sonic directions?
Honestly, I just really want to learn the business side of music. That’s been my whole goal now and being signed is definitely easier. Just in the rooms you’re in and the comments you get to hear, so I just pick up on a lot of s**t just listening. So that’s a big plus. It’s just exciting every day, because these are the artists I grew up listening to and appreciating. So being able to be in the same room, there’s just so much to learn in that and so much excitement in that. So I think it’s really as simple as that. Just whatever I can do to help them push their vision, or whatever I get from it, it’s really just a plus.
You’ve spoken a lot about how your cousins in Fontana broke you into the music space and how you learned from them. What do you appreciate the most about being able to start your artistic process not just with fellow artists, but with these fellow artists that are your family?
Well, yeah, that was a plus. Number one, no one is looking at you like some type of dollar sign. It’s truly like a genuine connection with your family. So learning from them, I’m very grateful for that. In the sessions I got to be in, I literally got to see how how you record music. Like, in the most literal way, I got to see how you interact with different producers, how you interact with the artists, studio etiquette, all that type of stuff. So I owe it all to them for sure for that.
You sold your first beat to D. Savage when you were in high school. Looking back at that process of sending out beats and everything, what’s one thing about said process that you didn’t know back then, but that you learned further on that you would’ve wanted to keep in mind in those early days?
I would say that trying to link with an artist is a lot more important than just sending beats all day. Like, sending beats all day is going to get you the connect to get to them. But once you do that, you should really try to build an actual bond with them. Like, not on no weirdo time, but just a genuine connection with them and try to build some sort of work friendship.
Juxtaposition and not getting boxed in are some of the most important things to you in your artistry and on DEADSTOCK. For this album specifically, how did you balance that process of the different types of emotions you wanted to engage with and what sounds you wanted to play with? How did you stay tapped into all these different parts of yourself while still organizing them into an album that feels more cohesive and intent-driven?
When I was making it, I wanted to go half melodic and, like, half bangers. But I also wanted to sprinkle in, like… It’s different stuff that you can’t find anywhere else. I think it’s a couple of songs on there that you literally can’t find nowhere else but there. And that was really important to me when I was making it. ‘Cause it’s so easy to make, like, fun songs and stuff to get the people hyped, the crowds hype. But I also wanted to give something that was kind of more intriguing or something that people might not get or might hate. I find a lot of power in that.
I do want to ask about a couple of lyrics that I caught on my listens. On “GEEKERTOWN,” you rap: “We don’t relate to rappers, they need millions to have fun / We don’t relate to actors, can’t escape the roles they love.” Now that you’ve seen how the hip-hop and music industries move on a lot of different levels, what are some of the mistakes or misconceptions about artists and celebrities that you want to try to avoid that you see your peers fall into?
Well, for the first line, I was really referring to the real people I know that will fly a girl out to where they’re at, take her shopping, take her to a nice dinner, get her a purse, just to have sex. Like, $8,000 just to have some sex. To me, I never had to do none of that. I could take a girl to Wendy’s, we could go to the movies… $30 and something hot at the end of the night. *laughs* That’s what I meant by that. It’s just a lot of extra stuff just to, like… I don’t know. I don’t know, they just be weird sometimes.
Then the second line, that was just another play on f***ing Hollywood, bro. I was at this party. I’m not going to name the actor, but it’s a dude that’s from the suburbs and didn’t grow up being a tough guy or nothing. But at this party, he’s trying to get in fights and be the toughest guy in the scene when, really, nothing was happening. It was a role he played in a movie where he was a tough guy. So I was like, “I wonder if he just can’t escape that reality. That role or that movie.” That’s really what it was.
Did you approach tracks like “GEEKERTOWN” with a topical focus in mind? You mentioned that sometimes you will freestyle on your beats, and then that will get the creative ball rolling. But were there any ideas that you specifically wanted to make a statement on?
Man, I wish I could say it was more of a statement. But it was definitely just free-flow thought, and that’s just what I was on that day.
I wanted to briefly touch on BLUE LIPS a little bit, because I found some sonic similarity between DEADSTOCK and some of your raw and stark productions on that album. Did you feel a creative overlap between your work on these distinct projects? What was the most different aspect about your approach to them?
There may be creative overlap. There’s nothing that I noticed, but it’s probably subconsciously. Like, anytime I work on a project, I just try to do a better job and get better every time. So there’s definitely overlap, but it wasn’t like a purposeful overlap.
You’re a proud moshpit starter, as you mention in a couple of songs and on your social media. Can you remember your first moshpit and speak a little bit on why that specific aspect to live music captivates you so much?
Yeah, I think it was 2017 or ’16. I can’t remember. But it was a Travis Scott show at The Observatory in Santa Ana. And I think whenever they dropped Huncho Jack, forgot what year it was. But whenever, that was the first, like, “Damn, this moshpit is crazy.” I actually passed out during the show. *laughs* There’s still a picture of it somewhere. But yeah, I was like, “Damn, that is intensity.”
What kind of energy do you want to create with your live shows? Considering that you have so many different sides of yourself, do you hope to bring that energy to people?
Definitely with these songs, there’s going to be plenty of moshpit moments. But I’m definitely like, “Okay, we moshpitting now and now I want y’all to hear this rap. Now I want you to hear me try to sing on this stage, to tone it down.” Like, talk to the crowd, tell jokes, all that type of stuff. My shows are going to give the people, like, make them a part of the show, too. Instead of just watching me with the camera, like, really interact with them and get to know them.
What are you looking forward to concerning performances in the future?
I’m about to open up for Q on his run. So I’m going to have the opening set on there. That’s going to be my first real go-around. I think I’ve only done four shows.
Obviously, since we’re talking about live shows, I’d be remiss not to mention “The Pop Out.” It seemed like you had a great time and something that you said you’re still riding the high off of. As both an artistic collaborator with these people and somebody who’s been a longtime fan for so many years, what excited you the most about that chance to see all of them share the stage and celebrate each other and the West Coast?
Well, yeah, the energy was just next level. You really can’t even put words to it. It is definitely a full-circle moment in my life, almost validating towards what I’ve been working so hard to do since I’ve been 14, 15 years old. Yeah, it really just resonated with me. I’m just glad I didn’t stop making music or get discouraged or quit, none of that. Just continued following my path. And then to see them, those are just the homies. To see them do this at such a high level, it just also shows the levels you can still get to by just working on your craft. They show it’s possible. So seeing all of that, just left with endless inspiration.
What is the quality or the philosophy that you want to add to the West Coast canon and legacy? If at all; I don’t want to box you into this West Coast thing, either. But what thought have you given that?
Maybe just to hopefully show people that you can make different types of music. If you’re from the West Coast, there’s always going to be West Coast elements in your music, 100%. Even in some of my music, stuff that you probably can’t even hear. There’s definitely some West Coast flair in it. But I hope, at least, what I’m trying to show is that you can make different types of music and still be considered a West Coast artist without the typical West Coast sound. You’ll still get West Coast respect. That’s honestly what it shows me when you see people up there like Tyler and Steve Lacy. Those aren’t typical, like… You wouldn’t even know they’re from the West Coast, honestly. But they’re West Coast legends, if that make sense.
Yeah, there are some songs like “PDA” where you can hear that more explicitly with the percussion pattern and other breezy moments. “STRIPPERS,” “ANNOYING”… You don’t always need the Mustard beat.
Yeah, and I love all West Coast artists, too. I want that to be known, too. I love all the West Coast artists, too, for sure. I’m listening to that, and I’m sliding around and moving around. So I’m not trying to diss them, but I was just trying to say what I’m trying to do.
Another track with a little bit of that energy to it is “POPPIN OUT THE RANGE!” which is an absolute banger. You rap: “We was running from the cousins we was trying to be / Escape the pain, escape the rain, escape the leash.” Even though you’re always moving forward in your artistry and in your life, how has your artistic process helped you reflect on your past years? Has it taught you anything unexpected about yourself?
I’ll say that making music, as far as putting my vocals on wax, it’s definitely just helped me cope through different situations of life. Because I usually keep a lot of stuff boxed in, but it’s just freeing saying things. And I don’t like talking to people, like, telling them what I’m going through. So I’d just rather put it in a song. That is the therapy for me.
You talk a lot on DEADSTOCK about navigating the industry, fickle females, and folks with vices and problems that they can’t even really understand. But it still feels like you’re enjoying the process and this point of your career. As you say on “WASTE NO TIME,” you can’t waste time on anything. What’s been the hardest thing for you to kind of like navigate in the industry? How do you think that this new album has helped you do so?
The hardest part is just… I guess just the social aspect and having to deal with so many types of people and personalities. You’re almost living so many different lives, it kind of gets draining. That’s lowkey a thing, a big theme of it. But like you were saying, another big theme of it… You said it sounds bubbly and stuff, but I think I constantly did that because I’m just a guy that laughs through whatever. So kind of just laughing at your pain in a way. It could be a fun song, or it could be a lyric that will make you turn your head, but like, it’s a fun song. So I’m kind of just laughing at pain.
“BIG SHOT” was my personal favorite track off DEADSTOCK. The world you build on that song sounds cold, but it’s also kind of perseverant. You talk about settling scores, final destinies, and seeking that balance between the many different aspects of the album. Why do you think that song sounds so different to everything else on the album? Did you have a moment where you knew that it would be the closer?
Well, thank you for that, that’s one of my favorites, too. Actually, that was a song I was making for Rihanna. They didn’t want that s**t. So I had to finish it. Then, I added guitar and all of that on top of it. But yeah, it’s a special one. Like, it wasn’t like a moment where I’m like, “Damn, this is the closing to the album, this is my outro.” Because when I create, I make 25, 30 songs and I just pick from them. It was definitely one that just sticks out sonically, so I’m like, “I got to fit this on here somehow.” And in the sequence, I felt like the only place it was just perfect for was the outro. I don’t think you’ll forget an outro like that, so I just had to throw it as an outro.
How much do you revisit beats? Many say that writing is rewriting, writing is editing. Do you feel that with your productions as well?
Usually, if I make a song, I’ll know immediately when the day is over if I want to add something or if I want to go farther in it. I think that was one of the only… There might have been two other ones that I went back in on. I was just making the whole beat, sequence the whole beat first. Then, everything will be in order. But that one I just felt like there was something missing, so I threw the guitar on there.
Yesterday, you teased a mystery feature on DEADSTOCK via an Instagram Story [which we now know is ScHoolboy Q on “BANG YOUR HEAD”]. To manifest real quick, are there any other dream collaborations that you have in mind?
I think when it’s all said and done, I just must work with Tyler, The Creator and I must work with Kanye West. If those two things could happen, I guess I’ll have really done it all with this music s**t. Those two things can happen one day, so I’m crossing my fingers.
Fingers crossed. Devin, I just wanted to thank you so much again for your time and for this wonderful convo. Now that you’ve built up you know such an amazing run this year alone, building off of all your past success, what else is inspiring you right now other than yourself to keep doing what you love?
Honestly, now I just want to show the world my ideas visually. So I’m going to be 10 times more hands on in my visual representation. Hopefully, to be able to land something with like, a Blumhouse or a f***ing A24. Because I know that I got all the weird ideas.
What is something or someone you would call “day one” that you are grateful for being in your career up until know and that you think is going to stick with you in the future?
S**t, my brother. He helps me a lot with this music. I send everything to him, most ideas I have, I just run it by him. I’m grateful for that guy.
Is there anything else that you want to add anything else, a shout out, a message before we head on out?
When it’s all said and done, the biggest victory in the West Coast’s dominant 2024 run, bolstered by new ScHoolboy Q and Vince Staples albums plus a fiery yet unitary Kendrick Lamar beef, might just be the slew of new artists that emerge in its wake. Devin Malik is leading that charge with a big smile on his face and one of the most versatile sets of talents and sounds you’ll hear this summer. The Philly native was raised in Southern California’s Inland Empire, and made a name for himself by producing for artists like Isaiah Rashad, Amindi, and most recently Q on his album BLUE LIPS. Now, this unpredictable and uncompromising sonic career has led to one of the most hard-hitting and creatively malleable albums of the year so far.
DEADSTOCK is Devin Malik’s new record, bolstered by bouncy singles like “BACKSTAGE” and gritty teasers like “LINK DUCKER.” On it, he speaks on his turbulent and self-conscious navigations through the music industry, his grounded lifestyle with way too many overzealous women in it, and his continued focus on representing all the different parts of his upbringing in as vivid and varied of a painting as possible. It’s vibrant, zany, wall-to-wall fun, and refreshingly risky. In this exclusive interview with HNHH, Malik discusses witnessing K.Dot’s “Pop Out” earlier this month, the many lessons he’s been blessed to learn, and his next ambitions as a sonic director, filmmaker, and potential computer scientist. You don’t need a doctorate to hear the wealth of ideas and approaches he brings to the table.
This interview, conducted via Zoom call on Monday, June 24, has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
The HNHH Devin Malik Interview
HNHH: Devin, thanks so much for being here! I wanted to start by asking about what you’ve been doing these days waiting for DEADSTOCK to drop. Are you ironing out the finer details, trying to celebrate early, or just going about your day as usual?
Devin Malik: Honestly, I’m definitely not celebrating. I’m not one of those types of guys that I want a big glory rush or something. *laughs* But I’ve been really just still in the studio, just doing normal everyday things. Obviously, like interviews and whatnot, doing the rollout and that kinds of stuff. But my days look pretty much the same, man. Wake up, hit the gym, hit the studio, go to bed.
I took the title DEADSTOCK to maybe mean a couple of different things. Mainly, I think of unsold inventory being discontinued for whatever reason, but I also think about farm tools or meat products as opposed to livestock. Not to spoil the album too much, but can you talk about why that title in particular kind of resonates with you and whether or not you also looked at it through different ways on the project?
You hit it on the note with the first one. It’s hard to find, rare, discontinued. I just feel that way as an artist because I get so many different flavors and genres on this project that I feel like it’s a lost art in today’s artists. Like, they find one sound that works and they just abuse it. Which I’m not mad at, but I just feel like I’m in a rare bracket. That’s why I really named it that, honestly.
You described DEADSTOCK on social media as “an audible horror film” with “lust, rage and comedy.” Even though that obviously comes off a lot in the production, I feel like your vocal delivery was also a big part of that on the album. Outside of your musical inspirations and knowledge, what else inspired you within film or other art forms in terms of how you used your voice on the album?
Well, I’m a Blumhouse guy. For people that don’t know that, this guy named Jason Blum, he runs a production company, Blumhouse. They do all types of horror films, like f***ing Split, Happy Death Day… I’m drawing blanks right now, but they do a lot of that. So I draw a lot of inspiration from that and just, like, how his mind and how their whole operation runs. I’ve got a lot of inspo from that, for sure. And I put it into my music somehow, in stories I tell or even little effects I use in the music.
Going off of the “comedy” description, do you have a funniest bar on the album or a moment in particular, while you were recording it or during the creation of it, that prompts that comedic description from you for the album?
Honestly, I’m just a very, very funny guy and I’m a funny, strange guy in general. So I just wanted to put that across into music. I don’t think there’s a specific line, but I feel like there’s always little stuff in there that kind of makes it funny because I don’t want to be serious all the time. So it’s not like I even went in with that intention, but when I listen to the album back, there’s definitely some comedic relief in here in some of these weird stories.
Especially with a lot of the romantic angles that you present on songs like “STRIPPERS” and “MOONLIGHT,” I feel like there were some funny jabs in there.
*laughs* Yeah, “MOONLIGHT” is a funny one for sure, that whole song.
You started off selling beats and working with Isaiah Rashad, Amindi, REASON, ScHoolboy Q, all these great artists, and I always find it interesting when the rapper-producer gets to flex both muscles in a way. Since you started taking your own raps more seriously, have you noticed that you’ve changed your production approach or think about the processes of producing and rapping differently? Or have all these things just always been in your head?
I wouldn’t say I changed my approach. But I definitely know what I personally want out of the music. So making it my own project, rather than producing for others, I have complete creative control over my own vision rather than it being predicated towards someone else’s sound, or obviously, whatever they’re trying to get across. It’s kind of easier for me, because I don’t need anyone to talk to. I don’t need anyone, it’s just complete tunnel vision. So I kind of enjoy it more, in a way.
In an interview with The Nuance, you said that your production style really depends on what your other collaborator wants, or what you agree upon together. On DEADSTOCK, you apply that mentality to the different sides of yourself. Do you feel like you have a signature sound for yourself that you want to prioritize moving forward? Are you still excited about molding yourself to different approaches and genres and still having that versatility?
I don’t think I’ll ever have, quote-unquote, a particular sound because I just get bored too easily. So the next one won’t sound like the next one, or like the next one. But what I have learned through this process is just finding a particular tone of voice that I really like. And I think that was the hardest part about all of this and making this.
On a quick note, during that same interview, you also hinted at maybe completing your computer science degree one day. Is that still a goal for you? Are things too busy right now?
*laughs* Things are 100% too busy right now. But I be trying to knock out a class here or there when I can. Like, right now, I’m in two classes, but all online. So, on some summer-type s**t. But yeah, I definitely still want to do that. Whether it takes me ten years, five years, 15 years, it’s just something I really want. I still love computer science.
As I understand it, you’re now officially signed to TDE as a producer after having worked with so much of the team for so long. What do you hope to learn the most from this process? What excites you about being able to contribute to the label’s artistry and sonic directions?
Honestly, I just really want to learn the business side of music. That’s been my whole goal now and being signed is definitely easier. Just in the rooms you’re in and the comments you get to hear, so I just pick up on a lot of s**t just listening. So that’s a big plus. It’s just exciting every day, because these are the artists I grew up listening to and appreciating. So being able to be in the same room, there’s just so much to learn in that and so much excitement in that. So I think it’s really as simple as that. Just whatever I can do to help them push their vision, or whatever I get from it, it’s really just a plus.
You’ve spoken a lot about how your cousins in Fontana broke you into the music space and how you learned from them. What do you appreciate the most about being able to start your artistic process not just with fellow artists, but with these fellow artists that are your family?
Well, yeah, that was a plus. Number one, no one is looking at you like some type of dollar sign. It’s truly like a genuine connection with your family. So learning from them, I’m very grateful for that. In the sessions I got to be in, I literally got to see how how you record music. Like, in the most literal way, I got to see how you interact with different producers, how you interact with the artists, studio etiquette, all that type of stuff. So I owe it all to them for sure for that.
You sold your first beat to D. Savage when you were in high school. Looking back at that process of sending out beats and everything, what’s one thing about said process that you didn’t know back then, but that you learned further on that you would’ve wanted to keep in mind in those early days?
I would say that trying to link with an artist is a lot more important than just sending beats all day. Like, sending beats all day is going to get you the connect to get to them. But once you do that, you should really try to build an actual bond with them. Like, not on no weirdo time, but just a genuine connection with them and try to build some sort of work friendship.
Juxtaposition and not getting boxed in are some of the most important things to you in your artistry and on DEADSTOCK. For this album specifically, how did you balance that process of the different types of emotions you wanted to engage with and what sounds you wanted to play with? How did you stay tapped into all these different parts of yourself while still organizing them into an album that feels more cohesive and intent-driven?
When I was making it, I wanted to go half melodic and, like, half bangers. But I also wanted to sprinkle in, like… It’s different stuff that you can’t find anywhere else. I think it’s a couple of songs on there that you literally can’t find nowhere else but there. And that was really important to me when I was making it. ‘Cause it’s so easy to make, like, fun songs and stuff to get the people hyped, the crowds hype. But I also wanted to give something that was kind of more intriguing or something that people might not get or might hate. I find a lot of power in that.
I do want to ask about a couple of lyrics that I caught on my listens. On “GEEKERTOWN,” you rap: “We don’t relate to rappers, they need millions to have fun / We don’t relate to actors, can’t escape the roles they love.” Now that you’ve seen how the hip-hop and music industries move on a lot of different levels, what are some of the mistakes or misconceptions about artists and celebrities that you want to try to avoid that you see your peers fall into?
Well, for the first line, I was really referring to the real people I know that will fly a girl out to where they’re at, take her shopping, take her to a nice dinner, get her a purse, just to have sex. Like, $8,000 just to have some sex. To me, I never had to do none of that. I could take a girl to Wendy’s, we could go to the movies… $30 and something hot at the end of the night. *laughs* That’s what I meant by that. It’s just a lot of extra stuff just to, like… I don’t know. I don’t know, they just be weird sometimes.
Then the second line, that was just another play on f***ing Hollywood, bro. I was at this party. I’m not going to name the actor, but it’s a dude that’s from the suburbs and didn’t grow up being a tough guy or nothing. But at this party, he’s trying to get in fights and be the toughest guy in the scene when, really, nothing was happening. It was a role he played in a movie where he was a tough guy. So I was like, “I wonder if he just can’t escape that reality. That role or that movie.” That’s really what it was.
Did you approach tracks like “GEEKERTOWN” with a topical focus in mind? You mentioned that sometimes you will freestyle on your beats, and then that will get the creative ball rolling. But were there any ideas that you specifically wanted to make a statement on?
Man, I wish I could say it was more of a statement. But it was definitely just free-flow thought, and that’s just what I was on that day.
I wanted to briefly touch on BLUE LIPS a little bit, because I found some sonic similarity between DEADSTOCK and some of your raw and stark productions on that album. Did you feel a creative overlap between your work on these distinct projects? What was the most different aspect about your approach to them?
There may be creative overlap. There’s nothing that I noticed, but it’s probably subconsciously. Like, anytime I work on a project, I just try to do a better job and get better every time. So there’s definitely overlap, but it wasn’t like a purposeful overlap.
You’re a proud moshpit starter, as you mention in a couple of songs and on your social media. Can you remember your first moshpit and speak a little bit on why that specific aspect to live music captivates you so much?
Yeah, I think it was 2017 or ’16. I can’t remember. But it was a Travis Scott show at The Observatory in Santa Ana. And I think whenever they dropped Huncho Jack, forgot what year it was. But whenever, that was the first, like, “Damn, this moshpit is crazy.” I actually passed out during the show. *laughs* There’s still a picture of it somewhere. But yeah, I was like, “Damn, that is intensity.”
What kind of energy do you want to create with your live shows? Considering that you have so many different sides of yourself, do you hope to bring that energy to people?
Definitely with these songs, there’s going to be plenty of moshpit moments. But I’m definitely like, “Okay, we moshpitting now and now I want y’all to hear this rap. Now I want you to hear me try to sing on this stage, to tone it down.” Like, talk to the crowd, tell jokes, all that type of stuff. My shows are going to give the people, like, make them a part of the show, too. Instead of just watching me with the camera, like, really interact with them and get to know them.
What are you looking forward to concerning performances in the future?
I’m about to open up for Q on his run. So I’m going to have the opening set on there. That’s going to be my first real go-around. I think I’ve only done four shows.
Obviously, since we’re talking about live shows, I’d be remiss not to mention “The Pop Out.” It seemed like you had a great time and something that you said you’re still riding the high off of. As both an artistic collaborator with these people and somebody who’s been a longtime fan for so many years, what excited you the most about that chance to see all of them share the stage and celebrate each other and the West Coast?
Well, yeah, the energy was just next level. You really can’t even put words to it. It is definitely a full-circle moment in my life, almost validating towards what I’ve been working so hard to do since I’ve been 14, 15 years old. Yeah, it really just resonated with me. I’m just glad I didn’t stop making music or get discouraged or quit, none of that. Just continued following my path. And then to see them, those are just the homies. To see them do this at such a high level, it just also shows the levels you can still get to by just working on your craft. They show it’s possible. So seeing all of that, just left with endless inspiration.
What is the quality or the philosophy that you want to add to the West Coast canon and legacy? If at all; I don’t want to box you into this West Coast thing, either. But what thought have you given that?
Maybe just to hopefully show people that you can make different types of music. If you’re from the West Coast, there’s always going to be West Coast elements in your music, 100%. Even in some of my music, stuff that you probably can’t even hear. There’s definitely some West Coast flair in it. But I hope, at least, what I’m trying to show is that you can make different types of music and still be considered a West Coast artist without the typical West Coast sound. You’ll still get West Coast respect. That’s honestly what it shows me when you see people up there like Tyler and Steve Lacy. Those aren’t typical, like… You wouldn’t even know they’re from the West Coast, honestly. But they’re West Coast legends, if that make sense.
Yeah, there are some songs like “PDA” where you can hear that more explicitly with the percussion pattern and other breezy moments. “STRIPPERS,” “ANNOYING”… You don’t always need the Mustard beat.
Yeah, and I love all West Coast artists, too. I want that to be known, too. I love all the West Coast artists, too, for sure. I’m listening to that, and I’m sliding around and moving around. So I’m not trying to diss them, but I was just trying to say what I’m trying to do.
Another track with a little bit of that energy to it is “POPPIN OUT THE RANGE!” which is an absolute banger. You rap: “We was running from the cousins we was trying to be / Escape the pain, escape the rain, escape the leash.” Even though you’re always moving forward in your artistry and in your life, how has your artistic process helped you reflect on your past years? Has it taught you anything unexpected about yourself?
I’ll say that making music, as far as putting my vocals on wax, it’s definitely just helped me cope through different situations of life. Because I usually keep a lot of stuff boxed in, but it’s just freeing saying things. And I don’t like talking to people, like, telling them what I’m going through. So I’d just rather put it in a song. That is the therapy for me.
You talk a lot on DEADSTOCK about navigating the industry, fickle females, and folks with vices and problems that they can’t even really understand. But it still feels like you’re enjoying the process and this point of your career. As you say on “WASTE NO TIME,” you can’t waste time on anything. What’s been the hardest thing for you to kind of like navigate in the industry? How do you think that this new album has helped you do so?
The hardest part is just… I guess just the social aspect and having to deal with so many types of people and personalities. You’re almost living so many different lives, it kind of gets draining. That’s lowkey a thing, a big theme of it. But like you were saying, another big theme of it… You said it sounds bubbly and stuff, but I think I constantly did that because I’m just a guy that laughs through whatever. So kind of just laughing at your pain in a way. It could be a fun song, or it could be a lyric that will make you turn your head, but like, it’s a fun song. So I’m kind of just laughing at pain.
“BIG SHOT” was my personal favorite track off DEADSTOCK. The world you build on that song sounds cold, but it’s also kind of perseverant. You talk about settling scores, final destinies, and seeking that balance between the many different aspects of the album. Why do you think that song sounds so different to everything else on the album? Did you have a moment where you knew that it would be the closer?
Well, thank you for that, that’s one of my favorites, too. Actually, that was a song I was making for Rihanna. They didn’t want that s**t. So I had to finish it. Then, I added guitar and all of that on top of it. But yeah, it’s a special one. Like, it wasn’t like a moment where I’m like, “Damn, this is the closing to the album, this is my outro.” Because when I create, I make 25, 30 songs and I just pick from them. It was definitely one that just sticks out sonically, so I’m like, “I got to fit this on here somehow.” And in the sequence, I felt like the only place it was just perfect for was the outro. I don’t think you’ll forget an outro like that, so I just had to throw it as an outro.
How much do you revisit beats? Many say that writing is rewriting, writing is editing. Do you feel that with your productions as well?
Usually, if I make a song, I’ll know immediately when the day is over if I want to add something or if I want to go farther in it. I think that was one of the only… There might have been two other ones that I went back in on. I was just making the whole beat, sequence the whole beat first. Then, everything will be in order. But that one I just felt like there was something missing, so I threw the guitar on there.
Yesterday, you teased a mystery feature on DEADSTOCK via an Instagram Story [which we now know is ScHoolboy Q on “BANG YOUR HEAD”]. To manifest real quick, are there any other dream collaborations that you have in mind?
I think when it’s all said and done, I just must work with Tyler, The Creator and I must work with Kanye West. If those two things could happen, I guess I’ll have really done it all with this music s**t. Those two things can happen one day, so I’m crossing my fingers.
Fingers crossed. Devin, I just wanted to thank you so much again for your time and for this wonderful convo. Now that you’ve built up you know such an amazing run this year alone, building off of all your past success, what else is inspiring you right now other than yourself to keep doing what you love?
Honestly, now I just want to show the world my ideas visually. So I’m going to be 10 times more hands on in my visual representation. Hopefully, to be able to land something with like, a Blumhouse or a f***ing A24. Because I know that I got all the weird ideas.
What is something or someone you would call “day one” that you are grateful for being in your career up until know and that you think is going to stick with you in the future?
S**t, my brother. He helps me a lot with this music. I send everything to him, most ideas I have, I just run it by him. I’m grateful for that guy.
Is there anything else that you want to add anything else, a shout out, a message before we head on out?
Ray J got to appear on Club Shay Shaythis week, and as you have probably noticed on social media, the episode has been making waves. Overall, Ray J had some very interesting comments throughout his appearance on the podcast. Much of the time he was on Shannon Sharpe’s show, he got to speak about his sex tape with Kim Kardashian and the fallout from that. However, he also got to speak about his life in the tech industry and how his investments have helped him become wealthier.
On top of all of this, Ray J had some more somber admissions throughout the conversation. For instance, he revealed that he and his sister Brandy haven’t always been on the best of terms. As he explains, the two have always had very different goals. While she might take herself a bit more seriously, Ray J has had a knack for being involved in more salacious headlines. Furthermore, his projects haven’t always aligned with hers. Consequently, this has allegedly led to Ray J being excluded from some recent family events.
— TheInfamousMell TV (Formerly BlackTMZ) (@BlackTMZ1) June 5, 2024
Ray J seemed pretty hurt while talking about all of this, and it is easy to see why. It is never easy to deal with family issues, and you can see the love the artist has for his sister. Whether or not they can solve those issues, is still to be determined. That said, he does seem to know what it will take. Ultimately, he thinks compartmentalizing his work from his family life could do the trick. Either way, it was an emotional moment of the interview, and it speaks to the singer’s willingness to be vulnerable.
Let us know how you feel about this admission from the artist, in the comments section down below. Do you believe that there is a way he can resolve this familial issue with Brandy? How did you feel about the artist’s most recent interview on Club Shay Shay? Additionally, stay tuned to HNHH for more news and updates from around the music world. We will continue to keep you informed on all of your favorite artists and their upcoming projects.
There’s an electrifying way in which Big Boi raps, whether he’s vividly portraying his cool as the equivalent of “Freddie Jackson drinkin’ a milkshake in a snowstorm” or describing Papa John’s “ooey gooey, crispy, crunchy, mouthwaterin’” pizza. The Outkast member has thrived since the group went on an indefinite hiatus following their groundbreaking musical, Idlewild. He’s gone on to release three solo studio albums that maintained Outkast’s futuristic approach to crafting potently groovy raps. That talent extends into the corporate world, however, as evidenced by Papa John’s latest campaign, “Better Get You Some.” Accompanied by a trailer of brain-melting visuals, Big Boi pens mind-bending bars that will undoubtedly leave you craving a slice of their “ooey-gooey, extra chewy mouth-watering” pizza, topped with their newly unveiled NY Style Crispy Cuppy ‘Roni.
Watch Papa John’s “Better Get You Some” Ad With Big Boi
The partnership began as a result of Big Boi’s hometown ties to Papa John’s, whose corporate office is located in Georgia. “They called and said they had a new campaign,” the Atlanta native explained shortly after receiving a Shiatsu Massage. “And they wanted a Jedi, you know what I’m saying? A heavy-hitter.”
Needless to say, Papa John’s couldn’t find a better partner to help execute this campaign. Big Boi and the Outkast brand became synonymous with a high level of prestige earned through their consistent execution with each project in their catalog. At the root of their creative success is an organic synergy, one that Big Boi said extends to the “Better Get You Some” campaign.
“Anytime I participate, it got to be organic, and it can never be forced,” he says of Papa John’s new commercial. “I first got the clip with the visuals to it, and then, the commercial was just crazy, you know what I mean, I loved it. I was like, Okay, this is dope. It’s hypnotizing in a way the way where it just captures your attention. And when you look at it, you go and call Papa John. I mean, it gets the point across so just to be descriptive, and you know, just make it fun”
An Ode To The Dungeon
LAS VEGAS, NEVADA – FEBRUARY 09: Big Boi performs during EA Sports’ The Madden Bowl at the House of Blues Las Vegas inside Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino on February 09, 2024 in Las Vegas, Nevada. (Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)
But, more importantly, there’s a personal connection to Papa John’s that goes beyond the pizza franchise’s headquarters in Georgia and well into his formative years. Big Boi revealed that Papa John’s had been a fixture during his late-night recording sessions. “That Papa John’s been on the menu for years and years, man,” he said. A typical order, he says, would include a cheese pizza (for the non-meat eaters) and a few large pizzas with bell peppers and onions. “I try to trick myself into eating vegetables,” he says jokingly, though that combination actually speaks to his memories of being in his grandmother’s kitchen. “When she’s cooking, I can eat raw bell peppers and onions all day long,” he says. “It doesn’t even have to be cooked. But when you slap it on top of that cheese, you got a nice snack.”
Naturally, you can imagine that all those nights of White Owls and Martell struck up an appetite as tracks were being laid down in the Dungeon. In the 30 years since the release of Outkast’s seminal debut album, Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik, Big Boi and Andre 3000 have undoubtedly proven that rap is far from a young man’s sport. Sure, Andre seems more enthusiastic about flexing his musicianship than stepping in front of a mic (though when he does, it’s never a lackluster effort) but for Big Boi, that passion that drove classic bodies of work throughout Outkast’s tenure remains as palpable today. His collaboration with Papa John’s, for example, became another opportunity for him to flex his lyrical muscles.
Longevity In Rap
“To be able to surpass certain limits and be in this game for, you know — next month will be 30 years for the anniversary of our album Southernplayalisticadillicmuzik — you have to live life,” he explains. This Jedi-like wisdom has undoubtedly served as the foundation for Big Boi’s artistry, though the true gem lies in how he absorbs and retains inspiration for his solo endeavors. “You live and you experience things, expand your vocabulary,” he continues. “And anytime you make good music, it’s like, you got to paint, you paint a picture with words, you know what I’m saying? And the people go back and they might not catch everything on the first listen. So you got to drop little nuggets in there so they can kind of try to decode your messages. And I do that with everything.”
Lil Mosey first exploded onto the scene with his song “Pull Up,” which eventually lead to a move to Los Angeles. Soon, he’d release “Noticed,” serving as his first entry onto the Billboard Hot 100. But nothing can compare to the heights of “Blueberry Faygo,” which solidified his name as a mainstay in the music industry.
“Blueberry Faygo” not only took over radio airwaves all around the world but also surpassed over one billion streams to date. The song’s official music video currently hails over 328 million views and counting, in collaboration with Lyrical Lemonade. But 2024 Lil Mosey is not the same as 2020 Lil Mosey. Getting signed super early at only 15 or 16 years of age, Lil Mosey is now 22 years old and has a much better head on his shoulders. He quit the partying, the drugs, the lean, and even the weed, and now he’s spreading a positive message to his fans.
This may have had something to do with his case, where he was accused of rape back in 2021. Speaking on the situation, Mosey states, “For a long time, it definitely took a lot out of me mentally. It took a while to work through a lot of things. But where I’m at now, I look at it as a positive thing. I’m sober now. I’m more positive. I’m more of a happy person than I was before.” Lil Mosey was acquitted of all the charges last year.
HotNewHipHop spoke to Lil Mosey in downtown Los Angeles, the day he dropped his new song titled “Thug Popstar.” Read below as he discusses the new music, touring with Juice WRLD, and sobriety.
This interview has been edited & condensed for clarity.
Image via Lil Mosey
How does it feel to be releasing music again?
It feels good. I had to step back for a second. But now that I’m back, I don’t plan on stopping anytime soon. So definitely feels good.
How excited are your fans?
They’re excited. We’re dropping again tonight, it’s called “Thug Popstar.”
That’s very on brand. What can we expect from that song?
A look into the daily emotions, whether they’re good or bad. Just a look into my life and what I’m going through. Definitely with the “Thug Popstar”… I dropped a song not that long ago [“Life Goes On”], they were like “Oh, he’s trying to make pop music.” It’s like nah, I’m a thug popstar. It’s what we do.
Did you anticipate that reaction from fans?
Of course, I know they were expecting something when I dropped that, and it wasn’t what they expected. I knew it wasn’t going to be what they expected, so I expected something from my fans in a way that was like: “we want this, we want that.” I knew it was gonna come, then I’m like okay, let me give them what they want. Alright fuck it, let’s do it.
There’s a beauty though in being a creative artist, doing the sound you want to do and expanding. I don’t think that should affect your… you know?
Yeah definitely. I try not to focus on what I think people want to hear, and try to focus on what I want to put out. But at the end of the day, I know my fans are the most important part of my career. At the end of the day, as much as I want to go off and do whatever I want, I still gotta give them stuff. Just so when I do go off and do what I want to do, they’ll respect it a little bit more, because at least they’re fed. All this stuff is music I love anyways. Regardless if I put out “Thug Popstar” or if I put out “Life Goes On,” it’s all from the heart.
How is music therapy for you?
For me, music’s everything really. Especially for a lot of people growing up, you don’t really have a lot of people to turn to and talk to. For me, music has always been a therapy session for me. Like when I’m talking… “Thug Popstar,” I know it’s a fun song. But in the actual depth of the song, it definitely came from the heart. It was me talking to myself on the song. The first verse of the song was definitely me having a conversation with myself. The second verse is what I’ve been going through recently, and where my head’s been at recently. There’s some good shit on there, I’m excited. I’m excited to show everyone.
You got videos dropping for these records?
Yeah, we dropping the music video on Monday.
What can we expect?
It’s that Mosey swag, with my homie Young Tada. Shout out Young Tada.
How did your case weigh on your mental health?
For a long time, it definitely took a lot out of me mentally. It took a while to work through a lot of things. But where I’m at now, I look at it as a positive thing. I’m sober now. I’m more positive. I’m more of a happy person than I was before. Now I can really focus on how I see my life playing out the rest — I got a long time. [laughs] I got a long time left on this planet. I’m glad I had something to keep me in tact, ground me a little bit.
It’s so crazy because you were on when you were 16. You’re still only 22, which is so young. Were you ready for all that fame?
I think I was ready for it. I mean, I thought I was ready for it. I still don’t know if I was ready for it or not. I don’t know if I ever really know if I was truly ready for it. But I definitely know it’d be a lot different if it would have happened later. I just don’t know what it would be like, and I don’t really want to see it like that. It would happen the way it happened, and that was the best way it could’ve happened. I definitely have a lot of shit coming in. It’s gonna be big, so I’m excited.
You found out about the whole situation from TMZ like the rest of the world. What was your initial reaction?
I was in disbelief a little bit, it didn’t really seem real to me. Because there’s no way, it didn’t feel real. I started getting phone calls, that’s when it hit me like okay, this shit’s happening. So I turned my phone off, stayed away from the internet for a while.
I saw you say you didn’t leave the house for two months.
Yeah, there was a time… because I was in Miami. I had to fly back home, then I went back to my house in LA. I didn’t leave the crib for two months. My friend, he lived with me. He’d be going out. He’s like “Bro, they keep asking where you at?” People are telling him like, “Bro, I know Mosey didn’t. He’s not that type of person.” That made me be like okay, maybe those people… because I didn’t know. Right when that shit happened, I isolated myself. I didn’t know what the world or who the people around me was gonna say. I was scared for that. It took a while…
Image via Lil Mosey
Were you recording, or how did you get through that tough time?
The first day I found out, I was recording in the studio, because I felt like that’s what I needed. But then I stopped recording for a while.
Damn, when you can’t even turn to music…
Yeah, I wasn’t really in the mood to do that. I just started playing video games. [laughs] I was in the crib playing video games.
What did you learn from that situation?
I learned a lot. I learned that I gotta watch who I keep around me and the situation I put myself into. Because a lot of stuff like that could have been avoided if I would’ve moved a little better and moved smart, and I didn’t surround myself with…
What was the greatest memory touring with Juice WRLD?
Definitely hearing unreleased music, besides hanging out. He’s definitely a good guy, RIP. I was hearing a lot of unreleased music, that was cool. Studio, 7 am in Chicago. That shit was lit.
Image via Lil Mosey
When did you stop sipping?
A while ago. Definitely a while ago. It’s been a while. I’ve been sober for a year and a half now, off of everything.
Good for you! How do you feel?
I feel good. I feel so good honestly. Mentally, I just feel here. I can actually have conversations and shit. [laughs] Because there’s a lot of times, I’m sure in interviews and shit, I’d be sitting there high as fuck.
But that was the vibe of your peers.
Yeah, that was the culture I was in. That’s the lifestyle I was in. That’s what it was and that’s what I was around, but it definitely feels good.
With your platform, it’ll empower fans so that they too can be sober. So I think it’s very positive.
Yeah. Because I know throughout my career, I’ve definitely influenced a lot of negative shit. The other day a fan actually sent me a DM. He sent me a video of him hitting a Puffbar, some nicotine. He said “Yo, you inspired me to do this.” I said bro, please quit that shit. I’m sorry that I did that. I quit a year ago, so I said: I hope you can do it too. I didn’t like seeing that. I gotta do better, definitely.
When Homeboy Sandman is in Los Angeles, like he was for this exclusive interview, he loves nothing more than to walk around and take in the sights. Whether it’s on his grocery run, to ease his mind, or to listen to his next records up for release, the Queens rapper lives fully in the present. That goes for when he goes up to his home state, too, and the result is someone who, rather than just being hyper-aware of his surroundings, is hyper-aware of himself. You can hear that through H.S.’ lyrics: raw, honest, vulnerable, and wholly removed from compromise or pulled punches in his messaging.
In this new sit-down, Homeboy Sandman talked about his growth and path as a titan of underground lyricism in New York and beyond. He went over some of his favorite 2023 media, holiday meals for the season, and his various albums and mixtapes that he dropped this year. The 43-year-old is nothing if not prolific, creative, and passionate about what he believes in and what he stands for, so he had a lot to say during our conversation. Furthermore, he even spoke deeply about his everyday life; you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who more vividly describes why certain types of people annoy him.
Jokes aside, Homeboy Sandman has a lot to be proud of, and a whole lot more coming down the pipe. Perhaps the most salient idea or emotion throughout this exchange is the hope in new hip-hop, in an era in which a 50th anniversary celebration coincides with more division and segmentation than ever. It’s never been an easy path, and it’s only going to get harder from here. But he’s too aware of the problems and promises permeating rap to do anything but act upon them.
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Homeboy Sandman (Credit: Art Morera)
HNHH: As you know, HotNewHipHop is doing an advent calendar series where we’re putting out a new piece of content, such as interviews and lists, every day leading up to Christmas. You already kind of had the leg up on us on that idea with your 2023 project, 12 Days of Christmas and Día de Los Reyes, for which you dropped one of the thirteen tracks off the album every day leading up to its full release on “Día De Los Reyes” (January 6). How did that album come up for you conceptually? What inspired you to put it out with that release schedule, and with a title and a concept that calls back to your Puerto Rican and Dominican heritage?
Homeboy Sandman: I remember I was in the gym working out. I had some music in my headphones, and I had recently linked up with Luke Warmth, who’s the art director for Dirty Looks [his record label]. It’s been so fun to link up with him and be able to get creative, you know? Ever since getting up with him, I’ve been trying to think up what can we drop. What are good reasons to drop? I’m always creating joints, you know what I mean? Like, we did two joints yesterday and two joints the day before that. It was really that that last jam, the “Dia De Los Reyes” that I wrote, that I was like, “I want to put this out, man!” They won’t have no hooks, it’d just be like, verses. I was like, I’m gonna just drop one of them.
The thing about it was, you know, I’ve heard all throughout making music that the holidays is a time that people stay away from as far as drops. People are distracted with family celebration and cooling out. It’s not a conventional holiday album. I mean, none of the songs are about the holidays, but it just felt to me like a cool idea, you know? I grew up loving music and I still love music, and when I was growing up, my favorite crew was The Roots. When I think about, “Should I drop this or shouldn’t I drop this,” I think if The Roots would have dropped a holiday record out of nowhere, would I have loved that? Yeah, I would have loved that, you know what I mean? So cats that’s rocking with me like I was rocking with The Roots or whoever it was I was rocking with, my favorite rappers, the more the better. It was really a celebratory gift for those who want to check for it.
For sure, and thank you for the gift! You were talking about how you’re always looking to drop stuff. How do you think that process of looking for those windows has changed for you over the years, not just with the shifting industry and release methods, but also as you’ve grown as an artist?
I think that it’s gotten a lot more intuitive. I used to be a lot more opportunistic in the sense of waiting for the right time, you know? Like, I put out three independent records before I was ever rocking with labels or anything like that. But there was a big gap in between my second one and the next one. Well, for me, it’s a big gap, it’s two years. I was like, “I’m gonna wait for certain things to fall into place before I drop and I’m gonna get everything oriented and situated these ways.” And that’s not to say I don’t think about that stuff now. Rich came out August 4, and we definitely was waiting up to secure the right digital distro and the right physical distro. There were things we was waiting to shore up, but it definitely ain’t the same as how it’s been. Obviously, putting things out on Dirty Looks, I don’t have to take into consideration the release dates of other artists, at least not yet. Or the considerations that come with being on a label that has a roster, you know what I’m saying? Even though Dirty Looks is going to have the greatest roster ever assembled when it’s all said and done.
You know, l put out a jam today called “Banned in the USA.” I wrote that jam last week. But I was like, “Yo, I love this jam. I don’t want this sitting here.” I’m gonna put out I Can’t Sell These Either November 17 and I’m just gonna add it to that. I put out the “Therapy” Truth Hurts remix, and I had written that the week before. Jams come out and I don’t want to sit on these, you know? Rich 2 is going to come out soon, you know, and Rich 3 is going to come out soon after that. I’m being proactive now rather than reactive, you know what I mean? I’m gonna put the jams out there, thank God for cats that want to check for it, but I’ma have things reacting to me rather than me reacting to things, you know?
Yeah, and I think that definitely comes across. Before getting into your career, I do want to be a little bit topical, since we’re doing a 2023 retrospective and it’s the holiday season. I wanted to bring up your chorus of “Harina de maiz, plátano maduro” on your song “Día de Los Reyes.” That’s not always a holiday food, but do you have a favorite holiday food around this season that you’re looking forward to chow down on?
For me, I’ve been just eating mad fruits and veggies. You know, growing up, there was a lot of turkey and ham. Puerto Ricans big with the pernil, you know what I’m saying? But I don’t partake in that much anymore. My grandmother, Abuelita Lucy makes amazing arroz con gandules which are always great to get involved in. The stuff that I came up eating– my mother makes macaroni and cheese and fried chicken that at times can be super on point. I love my mom. Sometimes she nails it, other times she falls a bit short, but it’s been a while since I had any of that. These are the things I used to look forward to. My pops is nice with the fish, you know? But I’m just looking forward to my broccoli and my spinach and my kale and my watermelon and my oranges, so that’s what I’m looking forward to right now that got me feeling good.
That’s awesome. What music was heaviest in your rotation from this year? Either something that came out this year or something you were just listening to a lot. Did you have any other media obsessions, like a great book or a TV show you indulged in?
Well, there was a couple of things that really left a big impression on me this year. Obviously, Aesop Rock got that Integrated Tech Solutions, and he’s a brilliant genius and the best in the world. Whenever he drops, it’s a holiday season, you know? My boy Mandella Eskia put out this [album] called BABA, which is really fly, another 2023 joint. Tanya Morgan had a joint called “Don’t Look Up” which was fly, Napoleon da Legend and J Scienide had an album called Goat vs Sheep that was really fly. Black Thought– I brought up The Roots earlier– that record that he did with El Michels Affair, Glorious Game, was very fly. I also did my first headlining show in Montreal in 2023, and got up with a cat named Milla Thyme, who just put out a joint called “More Bounce” that I think is fly. So those are some joints that dropped in 2023. But just as impactful as those, if not more, the two records that have really wowed me and really knocked my socks off in 2023, neither of them is from 2023.
One is from 2022 and the other is from 2021. The 2022 one is by Spit Gemz– you familiar with Spit Gemz? Spit Gemz is extraordinary. He put out a record in 2022 called Home School. It’s short, it’s like an EP, you know? But he got a rhyme… “Blasphemous, worshipping Baphomet, selling sucks and violence to babies inside they basket net, your big homie’s a doofus, he’s not a Silverback, and you’re a Judas but Satan’s gon’ want his silver back.” Amazing lines of truth! And the thing about Spit Gemz is he’s been rhyming for a while. Watching him progress as far as the insights that he has is… The tracks are all amazing. It’s just some of the best rhyming that I’ve heard, and some of the most insightful. And then Shad, who I just put out this song with “Ignorant S**t.” I’ve been a Shad fan for a long time, but had never got to his 2021 record TAO. It’s amazing. I mean, it blew me away and I’m so grateful to have connected with him. He’s got a line on there… “I’m battle-tested but was never that aggressive, even as an adolescent I would rather have a message, but damn I’m fly…” You know, amazing lines. Go peep that, he got a joint on there called “God” that’s got amazing lines.
So the Spit Gemz and the Shad really blew my mind, but them other joints also blew my mind on the music tip, you know? On the movie tip, I like sci-fi a lot. There was this joint called The Artifice Girl that was an independent sci-fi that was really hitting. Another joint called Robots, it was like a comedy with the girl from Divergent. It was hitting. Then I saw this joing called Maggie Moore(s) with Tina Fey and the cat from Mad Men that I thought was pretty fly. Of course, The Equalizer 3. I really like The Equalizer series. Denzels get down with his, or Robert McCall, I think his name is. He reads, he’s polite, he shows mad love, but he’ll shut it down if it need to get shut down. He eats right, he looks out for his peoples, you know, that’s my character. That’s a character I like. Three movies that I’ve seen that wasn’t 2023 that wowed me was The Pledge with Jack Nicholson. That movie is crazy! I love that movie, like, I could talk about that movie all day. I seen Death to Smoochy, which is a fly movie. You know, very much about Homeboy Sandman, but in a different arena.
I got the rhyme that hasn’t come out but… “Like Gucci on Christ, understand that Homeboy Sand is Smoochy on ice.” And then I saw this joint called Daybreakers with Ethan Hawke. Slamming. Symbolism was crazy, loved it. Oh, you know what? Just what I’m seeing around me picking up? Cats been using the greyscale, you up on the greyscale on your phone? I’ve been seeing people switch to the grayscale in order to be less addicted to their phones. I’ve been liking how I’ve been seeing more dissent in mainstream media. When I say dissent, I just mean deviating from the popular narrative. Somebody sent me a link to a New York Times article about how mask mandates made no difference. 2022 or 2021, for sharing that link,, somebody would have tried to assassinate. You know, it’s less about people’s views or opinions or how they feel. I get excited about seeing different perspectives come up in popular media, you know what I mean?
Still now, we can make a lot of improvement. There’s been a lot of censorship that’s real crazy. There’s been a lot of open censorship, which is Instagram and YouTube just coming out saying, ‘If you don’t see things our way, we’re taking you off.’ And it’s kind of embarrassing how many people are cool with that, but that’s a whole ‘nother story. I’ve been happy to see a little bit more variety in mainstream media, even though myself, I don’t really partake in mainstream media a great deal. But I know many people do, you know. But my number one thing that I’ve been seeing and popping off a lot: I’m a plant-based eater. The veganism, the plant-based eating is becoming more and more easy to find options. It’s becoming more prevalent. [My love] sent me a link the other day that was talking about how in Denmark, they’re gonna be the first country to try to implement a full plant-based overhaul. All throughout the educational system, all throughout the whole country. It’s setting an ill precedent, so that’s something that has really helped the frequency in my own life as an individual, so I’m happy to see that picking up steam as well.
Homeboy Sandman (Credit: Balkar Singh)
I’m glad you brought up that transgression in the media. In your music, you come across as not just personal and open-hearted, but also as transgressive. What for you is the most rewarding thing about being so uncompromised in your music and putting bits of yourself within that for people to connect with and to share?
For me, being honest and being authentic generates all the magic in my life, you know? Makes everything about my world go better: my relationships go better, my creativity, which are works in progress for me, because I need to be honest with myself. It’s a continuing work in progress. But seeking and striving for authenticity and honesty with myself and others, all the abundance in my life is tied into that. And it’s so amazing how God just hits me with this abundance, like, I’m just going from making music to eating good food back and forth. It’s a really idyllic state. But that all comes from keeping it real, that’s what it all comes from, you know what I mean?
I want to get rid of all the toxicity that comes with being afraid of being different, or being afraid of whatever’s going on inside me. Llike, I connect with people for real. I put out a jam earlier today. And I’ve been building with people that I’ve never met before. We build because they know where I’m at, because I tell them. They could share with me and we could share insights with one another, learn from one another. There’s all different types of people doing all different types of things in this world. I’m trying to be an artist, I’m trying to express reality through my filter, through my artistry. So a prerequisite for that is keeping it real, you know?
I’m a bit of a newer listener. I started listening to you when you put out “Talking Bleep” in 2016. That was a record where you basically go over certain types of people that annoy you. With the context of 2023 in mind, if you were to rewrite that song today, are there any other types of people that you would work into that song that you’ve found since then?
I actually try to walk a fine line between– I don’t even know if it’s a fine line, maybe I’m just doing a very bad job. You know, between being judgmental and being expressive. The first thing that came to my mind when you asked me that, in the past few years, I definitely would have had– and I’ve written a lot in different songs, but just haven’t made a whole song. I would have had a verse about the term antivax. I would have had a verse about the word wars, the word wars are crazy. If a woman wants to decide if she’s gonna have a baby or not, she don’t get called anti–birth, you know what I’m saying? She gets called pro–choice. If a person wants to decide if they want to take a shot or not, they are called antivax, which is all the framing. It’s another pro-choice thing.
And I’ve talked about the word wars a lot. Me and my boy, we working on this “Amateurs” record. You nice with it. The word amateur comes from the word “amour,” which is to love. What it actually means is people that do it for the love, that’s what “amateur” means. And it’s only in this sick, crazy, twisted society, with things are regarded as meaningful or valuable because they’re tied to the generation of revenue, that that has gotten so twisted out of shape. And it’s like, “Oh, amateurs is not– no, we doing it for the love out here.” I wouldn’t have written a verse about that, that’s just a new insight that my boy put me on to, but I definitely would have had some word wars lyrics in there.
Oh: AI. Come on, B! Cats got so impatient waiting for AI to actually exist, you want to call every computer program AI. Artificial intelligence, it’s meant a specific thing my whole life, your whole life. It’s been popularized in sci-fis. When there’s artificial sentience going on, boom, then we fit AI in and everybody knows. They got the thing in Matrix: mankind marveled in their own magnificence as they gave birth to AI, whatever, right? I think it’s amazing. I think all the ChatGPT stuff is cool. all the filters, put somebody’s face in, make them look like they was Napoleon or whatever it is. This is all very cool, I’m not saying this isn’t cool, this is awesome. I think computers are great. But if you’re going to call this stuff AI, you might as well call a calculator AI. I mean, you might as well call an assembly line in Detroit in 1950 AI, you know I mean?
Computers imitate, it’s amazing the imitation that computers can do now. It’s amazing if you can have a computer that you can have a conversation, because it went and read every single conversation in the world and now it can make up a conversation based on every other conversation. But as long as it’s still making up a conversation based on every other conversation, stop calling the thing AI. It’s just a computer program. It’s just a computer advancement, it’s a tech advancement, it’s a tech update. We’re conditioned to associate the prevalence of AI with a major technological breakthrough, a major evolutionary breakthrough. So now everybody’s saying “AI” to each other, pretending that AI is here! So that would have definitely been another verse in “Talking Bleep.” I would have had to go off on all the people saying “AI,” you know what I mean?
You started off in the underground, putting out tapes before signing to any labels and being on radio stations from college ones to the biggest in New York. How do you think that the new tastemakers in the culture– be they publications, people on social media, et cetera– how do you think that they’re adapting to putting other people on? Especially people like yourself that have more transgressive content and aren’t falling into mainstream media. How do you think that they’re adapting to the algorithms, and to recommendations you’re getting off of a playlist generated by Spotify rather than a radio host?
I’ll give the best answer to that I can, but I’m a little further removed from even keeping a close eye on much of that stuff. Earlier in my career, it was very important to me to try to generate a certain degree of momentum, you know what I mean? Not only am I going to be making jams, but the dissemination of these jams and getting them into the right hands. At some point, I had a certain degree of exposure and reach that I was able to focus on the production. I still seek to get my music to every single person in the world, still strive to be a household name. I still want to be the Bill and Ted of real life, change the world with tunes, you know? When I was coming up, I was like, “Alright, this is the stations I got to try to get on. Blogs is big, you know, when I go to South By Southwest, I’m gonna try to link up with SK and say peace,” et cetera.
These days, I don’t really even know what’s going on as much. I do know that the playlisting is something that people talk about a lot. My manager Darien is, and I mentioned that in the jam today, I do know that cats are going to these…, if the question was how are people doing, I would like to say that just as much as ever, and maybe more than ever because they have more tools, it appears to me that people that love good music are sharing good music, so everything is great. It’s a great time to be making great music because all you got to do is give it to one person that loves great music, and they will give it to somebody else. They’re gonna have all types of ways to give it to somebody else, so that’s great.
You’re talking about tastemakers and you’re talking about trends. Lauryn Hill was the biggest artist, had the greatest record, was amazing. I like it when when the best art correlates, there’s two different wavelengths. One is what’s trending, the other’s what’s actually fly. And I like it when they intersect. That’s not to say they don’t intersect, they intersect a lot. There’s a lot of world-famous household names that are some of the most amazing artists that have ever lived, you know. That isn’t what’s primarily pushed to most people right now, the best art. So there’s a bit of a valley. The records that are most readily accessible to people are not at all the most creative records, not at all the most enriching records, you know what I’m saying? To that, I would have to say that the people that are sending the trends for most people are doing a terrible job.
But their job is not to give the best records out. That’s why I got the rhyme that say, “It’s not about sales, people; they don’t want artists, they want salespeople.” They’ll tell you what your culture is. So they’re not out here trying to get you the best records. They’re trying to make sure you buy as much stuff before you end up in jail, they’re doing a great job spreading that, getting to you what they want to get to you. In that song, I mentioned RapCaviar. The vast majority of the rap on RapCaviar, you could write raps probably better than just based off this conversation. There’s some talent on there, a sprinkling of talent in there, but there’s a lot of trash on it.
I actually went on there to find out what were the playlists I was supposed to shout out on that jam. So they’re good at spreading trash, and they got all these ways of spreading trash, but we got all these ways of spreading good stuff. And big shout out to you for being involved in it. If you love rap records, you want to listen to the best rap records whether they the biggest or not, you know? You was talking about the the algorithmic everything. I think that’s a pretty cool thing, if you pull Homeboy Sandman into the Spotify, I’ve discovered artists based off listening to artists that I like. So I think that’s another cool advantage.
You’re also as prolific of a collaborator as you are a solo artist, working with artists as big as Aesop Rock, Quelle Chris, and so on and so forth. Rich just came out, your collaborative project with Mono En Stereo, and I wanted to ask you if you could recall some of your favorite memories while working on that.
First of all, Mono is my guy, man, that’s my dude. We’ve been rocking for so long. I get to make records with so many talented producers [and artists], but there’s something about me and Mono that has always been there from day one. It’s just a warmth that’s always been there. When I was writing “Fine,” before my lady and I moved in together, she lived in Queens, I lived in Brooklyn. In the summertime, I don’t like taking the train. So I take these long walks. A lot of writing, I do while I’m walking, you know? So I took a five five hour and 13-minute walk to get from Brooklyn to [Queens]. And it was a beautiful day. I had that beat, and Mono En Stereo, his real name is Rich. Rich has a lot of meanings. Much of it is about the richnesss, it’s about true richness, but his name is also Rich, and that’s not a coincidence. So I had that beat and I loved it, and I was like, “We got to do something with this.”
It was on that walk that I found the entry point to it. Once I find that entry point, boom, we’re off, but sometimes it takes a little while to just find that access point. So that’s a real beautiful memory for me. Taking a five-hour walk in the beautiful sun as that song kind of unraveled in my head. Seeing all the things in New York, all types of different neighborhoods. So that’s the first one that comes to mind. I had been in a long relationship that had ended. I was really grateful for kind of the levity that writing “Then We Broke Up” was able to ground me in. Breaking up is hard to do. As far as thinking about good memories associated with that album, it’s easy to say “look on the bright side,” you know what I mean? A lot of the time for me, when I’m trying to short circuit habit or short circuit negativity, it takes a lot of repetitiveness and redundancy. We’re gonna change our attitude about this. I just feel that like being grounded in a record, which is something that I have to write and really brings my creative process into, it was really so helpful for me at that time.
Homeboy Sandman (Credit: Misshattan)
I can’t wait for Rich 2 and 3, like you mentioned. I also wanted to talk about one of your other recent projects, which was with the Oakstop Alliance in Oakland. You teamed up with a nonprofit, you worked with around 20 local artists, and made a really great compilation of it, Royalty Summit. There is such a myth around the hip-hop group or collective. Particularly when working with the Oakstop Alliance, what is one myth about that group dynamic that you found to be true, and another one that wasn’t?
It is challenging to work with others, you know, I find that to be true. Even though I do collaborate a lot, I’m a solo artist. When it comes down to it, I want for everybody to love everything. So if I don’t feel right about a thing, I can’t sign off on it because somebody else does. If somebody else doesn’t feel great about something I feel great about, that’s been more challenging for me, but in the end, I gotta remind myself, “Hey, I’d be the same way.” I fly solo, but I got love for all my collaborators. A lot of the turmoil that come with needing to have a bunch of cooks in the kitchen, that’s something that I could definitely relate to.
I think that, “This cat, he took this jam,” I think that’s a real thing. I’m not going to speak on any jams that I’ve taken, but I did a jam with Kurious George and J–Live called “Enough.” And I love Kurious, that’s my boy, we rock all the time. I didn’t mention his record Monkey Man that came out in 2023. But J-Live took that joint. It’s funny because we actually did “Enough 2,” “More Than Enough,” which is not out yet. And J took that one too, man. Always keeps taking the freaking record you know, what are you gonna do? But these guys are the best rappers in the world. Ain’t no shame in it. I still feel I would never ever go to rewrite a verse. You know what I mean? If your verse is not good enough, then it ain’t good enough. You should rewrite before you even hear the other verses.
As far as working with Oakstop, it was just fun. There wasn’t a whole lot of that competitive spirit, I think we were really blessed to have such a wide variety of eclectic talent in there. Like, this cat Mike Sneed, so amazing. His style was so brand new. It’s so melodic. Like, I love his energy. What a fascinating talent. I wasn’t familiar with a lot of these artists, but then through Oakstop, through Damon Johnson, who’s the head of Oakstop Alliance, he shared with me different things and I said this is fly. Being able to mix those energies of a dude who’s just an established legend with a cat who’s just so hungry. Putting out beautiful energy.
The artists that were all in the room, they were all very unique people already on their own. There was a degree of curation before we all got together inside a room. Damon did also seek to cultivate an environment of creativity and unique artists. That was a great time, man. We got so much done in three days. I can’t remember everybody who was on it. It was a great room. It wasn’t any competitiveness. It was people that were excited to be there, that were excited to shine. I love the energy of cats looking to get on, you know what I mean? It remind me that it’s great energy for me to be around.
Maybe the myth about rewriting verses is something we can take off the board, then. I have a bit of a weirder question, but you’re just such a great and versatile lyricist. Let’s split lyricism into five categories: message, rhyme scheme, flow, punchlines, and character. Obviously, this is going to shift from song to song, but could you rank those from lowest to highest based on what you try to focus on or showcase in your writing?
For me, message is super important. I can’t flip no style not saying something. A lot of cats will come out and they’ll flip a style and they’ll say something so stupid, because it sounds fly. And I’ll be like, “Why did you say that?” They’d be like, “You know I don’t even really feel that way, but it just sounds so fly.” That don’t sound fly to me, you know what I mean? Message is key to me. Punchlines, I guess it determines how you define punchline. Is it the conventional, like, the bar ends in the thing that made the previous bar witty, or is it just saying something that wasn’t expected?
When Lupe Fiasco talks about Aesop Rock, and he talks about his punchlines, he has a thing about his punchlines being just one word, because nobody would ever used that word except for Aesop. And I think that’s a great point, because this cat made a word of punchline. It was Lupe that had that insight, which resonates with me, you know what I mean? From that definition of punchlines, which is just saying something that was unexpected, that’s very, very important to me. I don’t want dull rhymes. I do not want for my next line to be able to be predicted. I do not want that. My original slogan when I first came out is you know, “Homeboy Sandman, flow so crazy, you’d love him even if he couldn’t rhyme, and rhymes so crazy, you’d love him even if he had no flow.” I definitely tried to keep the flow in mind at all times.
I want to talk real quick about I Can’t Sell These Either, a sequel to your critically acclaimed Bandcamp tape that is one of many independent releases you’ve put out. Was there anything different for you this time around in terms of messaging or process when writing this sequel in comparison to the first one? How do you think that these installments fit in your overall discography?
These are mixtapes, so they’re a little different from albums to me, you know what I mean? I talk about “funny business,” it’s a term I’ve come up with. On I Can’t Sell These, there’s a couple of tracks that are funny business tracks. Funny business means that I make these tracks and I love them, but the music business is so funny that these tracks haven’t come out, so I’m gonna put them out on this mixtape. Some of those can be old, and there were tracks between I Can’t Sell These and I Can’t Sell These Either that, in the timespan between the two, have fallen into the category of funny business. So now, they’re eligible for the second one. I wrote them at a different time. The single that have been coming out [I wrote soon before they came out], and the next single that’s going to come out, I wrote also this year.
The driving force behind putting out both of them, like, the concept for both of them is, if I hear something that need to be rapped on, I’m rapping on it, and that still continues to this day. I’m gonna always have jams that I just felt I had to rap on them and they not really conventionally mine or whatever. I find some way to disseminate them if I could find a reasonable way. But I think that the driving force for this one is similar to the driving force for the other. I have 10, 15 new jams that I’ve written that I just wrote just because I was moved to write them, you know what I mean? I had to do it because I love rhyming.
Right now I’m writing a rhyme, I don’t even want to let the cat out the bag. There’s this jam that I used to love so much but it’s a lesser known jam, but the beat was so stupid. Finally found the instrumental the other day, been writing to it. Once I got those 10 to 15 new ones that I really want to share, then I’m like, “Okay, what else do I have that that also satisfies this work that I can’t sell, but I would like to share?” That’s kind of the difference between the two and the similarity.
“Banned in the USA” has one of the hardest like single covers, I’ve seen in a long time. You mentioned that 2 Live Crew was banned for being too explicit, and now you’re being “banned” for not being explicit enough. I wanted to bring up like a specific line: “Cue Instagram to cultivate a whole generation of kids that’s never moved to read about the movie Birth of a Nation.” It’s one of many bars that you have about identity and exploitation within hip-hop on the song. Can you break down some solutions to these big issues that you have seen proposed or that you’ve proposed yourself? Whether it’s for the industry or for the culture at large. Is there such a thing as a good and bad solution to it or are we all working towards the same goal?
I think that’s a great question. Before I answer it, I want to let people know that I definitely have solutions that work, that will work, that are guaranteed to work, and that we could all begin to get involved in today. I would like to share some of those, but before I say that, I would like to let people know that these are not easy. When I talk to people about solutions, they don’t always really want solutions. What they want is easy solutions. I can’t really think of any of those. I was talking to somebody the other day, and there are certain things in our society that are so horrific and despicable that we have a no tolerance policy. We have a no tolerance policy with pedophilia, as we should. That’s a nightmare. It shouldn’t be promoted, passed around, it ain’t cool. We ain’t gonna act like it’s cool.
“Killing n***as, I kill n***as,” that’s a nightmare, you know? “B***hes ain’t s**t,” that’s a nightmare. The misogyny, the money worship, the violence, just the degradation is a nightmare. It’s nightmarish stuff. It’s only because it is commonplace that people are like, “Whatever.” Racism is a nightmare. If I was back in New York, it wouldn’t even be up to me if I was hearing “kill a n***a, kill a n***a, kill a n***a, kill a n***a” walking down the street, blasting through the window. Why I got to hear that? That’s racism, that’s terrible, you know? When you’re at the gym, and the gym is playing “n***a, n***a, n***a” records, what’s going on here? Who’s choosing this jam? They’re gonna look at you like you’re crazy. You’re the only person that this jam bothers. But that’s okay. Because it’s not an easy solution to get out of a car if they’re playing terrible music, to leave a club or leave a party if they’re playing terrible music. It’s not an easy solution. But it is a meaningful and necessary thing to do to protect.
Children are impressionable– we’re still impressionable and we’re adults! It is so ridiculous for people to act like kids are going to be looking up to drugs, guns. Kids are just trying to figure out what to do. It is such a lie. So we need to stop lying to ourselves, and that’s a challenge, right? You need to check yourself every day. That’s a challenge. We could do it. Mega Ran just put out a kid’s record, he’s the artist that I told you about. Him and his wife started fostering a child, and realized that they don’t want to play the same music in front of a child that they listen to on their own. When people start having children, they’re like, “Yo, I can’t play this stuff for them.” It takes that sometimes in order to be the breakthrough, you know what I mean?
So we all do know that there’s toxicity of frequency that we’re absorbing, and that is affecting our life. My relationships was terrible for years because I had all this subconscious “b***hes ain’t s***t, f**k b***hes as much as you can,” the opposite of love, you know? I’m talking about things that are hard, and calling ourselves out on self-deception is hard. But they all fall in the umbrella of a zero tolerance policy. Do you care enough about your kids in your community? Do you care enough about yourself and your behavior and your activity, whether or not you could feel good living a life of integrity to have a zero tolerance policy about hateful things? Because if you can, then you could shut this down yourself. Because that’s what I’m doing, and you could do it, too.
I was recently watching an interview of yours with “The Boom Bap Chat” on Everybodys Hip Hop. To them, you mentioned how your growth had basically led you to reevaluate a lot of the content matter behind Mobb Deep and other classic hip-hop artists that you grew up listening to. How is the way that hip-hop is moving forward in 2023 impacting not just its current legacy, but the legacy of artists that have come before it and artists that already made their mark on the culture?
That’s a good question. I split things into two different categories. I’m seeing stuff in my records right now that I probably will be like, “That’s ridiculous, I shouldn’t say that no more” in a couple of years, you know what I mean? That’s why I try to toe the line between being judgmental because I know that I am steeped in fault and I’m an evolutionary. I’m evolving myself. You bring up Mobb Deep, or you bring up anybody. I brought up Mobb Deep, I grew up listening to Mobb Deep. I wasn’t out there robbing cats or nothing like that, but it’s like, “Yo, it’s cool, this lifestyle.” Like, M.O.P., “Ante Up.” This “we’re enemies “lifestyle, and like, “Yo, I’m ready, whoever’s coming out, I’m gonna take out.”
That infiltrated my psyche, it infiltrated my behavior, and I got to unlearn it. I’m not out here saying burn Mobb Deep at the stake, because I’m grateful to everybody who made art at a level of talent and skill that I was able to learn about talent and skill from them. I wouldn’t even be having a lot of the issues that I have now if censorship wasn’t a big deal. Like, censorship right now is crazy. And people think censorship… it’s another word war thing. People think that censorship is keeping bad things out. Censorship could be keeping good things out. That’s what we’re dealing with now.
So as a kid, when when hip-hop was younger, and the presentation of it was younger and different, the variety between an “I’ll shoot you in the stomach” Kool G Rap, “I’m the coolest cat in the world, I clearly have a lot of women issues,” Slick Rick. You know, they called A Tribe Called Quest and Native Tongues “hippie rap.” The spectrum of life is real. Hip-hop started off with a variety. So when it’s all presented– actually, that’s what I really would like to see. I don’t want uniformity. For me, for the people that feel that it’s going so left of center into the horrific world where people are selling drugs because it’s cool, not because they have no other means of supporting themselves, and going to jail, I’m gonna take a no tolerance policy, and I invite everybody to get involved with me.
For the people that don’t feel the same way, the next best thing is making sure that everything we absorb is talent-oriented, because talent will be the great equalizer. It’s not true that everybody that can rap is a killer. Killing and music got nothing to do with each other. A lot of people that can rap cut grass for living or wash windows, you know what I’m saying? So we need to make sure that we got the window wash rap, and the killer rap, and the race car rap, and the whatever. We need to make sure we have variety, and variety will be based off talent. I personally think that when I look at the evolution, I believe that mainstream media even goes to test how far they could go.
When they came out with Soulja Boy, they were saying, “Yo, it’s been kind of crazy that these people, these listeners, we’ve been giving them this stuff, and they haven’t turned against it. Can we really give them anything? Let’s see if we can really give them anything. Let’s see if they’ll turn it off.” You know, I’m targeting that, but I think it was an example of that. But there’s other things. Some stuff I hear now in the background, I’m like, “People haven’t turned this off?” So I think that they go to see how far can we go. Once they see that you don’t turn off the Soulja Boy, “Oh, we got these cats, you could just give whatever.”
You can make a record that is every bit as skillful as the majority of records on RapCaviar. Something’s wrong with that. I always bring up Stevie Wonder. People didn’t listen to Stevie Wonder and say, “Oh, I could do that, too.” ‘Cause it’s a God-given talent. People don’t listen to Homeboy Sandman or any of the other rappers that I revere and say, “I can do that, too,” because you can’t. It’s not supposed to be “Anybody could do this” because everybody can’t do this. So when you hear somebody doing something that sound like a zillion other things, let that raise a red flag for you.
Homeboy Sandman (Credit: Art Morera)
Is that something that you’ve noticed more, that the negative attention is also fueling a lot of this interest?
Yo, I hear about rappers because people tell me they can’t stand them. This is why I hear about rappers, B. “Yo, have you heard this new rapper?” That’s the way I hear about mad rappers. It’s a “There’s no such thing as bad publicity” thing. If it was really about pushing what people liked when they heard it, it’d be mics getting murdered instead of Pop Smoke, you know what I’m saying? Because they’re not out here trying to give cats the most hottest record, they out here trying to generate whatever anger, hate, whatever emotional click bait or whatever gets people angry, gets people sad, gets people talking. They really playing to the lowest common denominators in our nature.
They playing to the parts of our evolutionary brain that are just the furthest away from where we’re at and the society we’re trying to live in. Yeah, absolutely, they definitely picked up on that. If these people are going to engage with this garbage, and if they’re going to engage more with it because they hate it, that’s why we got to take it on ourselves, B. If they had a festival, you know, Summer Jam Hot 97 Annual Trash Festival, and nobody went, they’d have Homeboy Sandman on it the following year. It ain’t about me, though. I mean, they’d have Quelle Chris on it the following year.
From January 2008 to August 2009, you hosted “ALL THAT! Hip Hop, Poetry and Jazz” open mic sessions at the Nuyorican Poets Café in Alphabet City, NYC. It’s been home to not only hip-hop legends like Bobbito García and MF DOOM, but also great Puerto Rican and Latine minds and poets like Martín Espada and Sandra María Esteves. How did that intersection of art and culture across national and ethnic boundaries have an impact on you as an artist, as a writer, and just as a person?
All the flavor. I haven’t been to the Nuyor in a while, but all the flavor in New York was congregating at the Nuyorican. Before 9/11, my sister was there. My sister used to do poetry. She was at the Nuyorican the night that Black Thought and Common dropped in. They used a pseudonym like “Lesbian Sex Party,” or something like that. Called them up and they came up and it was Common and Black Thought. I wasn’t there, but Cool Bob Love hosting and Flaco Navaja hosting after that. I was the third host after Bob and Flaco. I felt very proud, and it was the longest-running open mic and probably still is the longest-running open mic in New York City.
Everybody was coming through. There was a lot of tourists in the crowd because it’s a global spot that is well-known. All five boroughs was in there, everybody from every different shade was in there, with every different identity and whatever nation. It was a melting pot of flavor. I really love how we had the live band. Having that warmth and that real instrumentation going on, and everybody had to use it. The one that I did, we had the live band, I did the one on Wednesday, which was the “ALL THAT!” One of them, you’re able to bring some tracks, right? But at the one I was doing, you had to play with the band. So even though you had all these different energies in there, the band was the constant that took everything and held it all together.
That was an amazing time. I met so many amazing rappers, I made so many amazing friends. I mean, that time in my life when I was first starting to come out, that was such an amazing time in my life. I think back to that time often with great joy. And it’s so funny, like, I was listening to Engelbert Humperdinck. “The Hungry Years,” I don’t know if you know that jam. But he talks about, “I missed the hungry years.” Like, we thought we didn’t have nothing, but we had everything. These are the times I was 60 pounds lighter than I am now, B. Sleeping on everybody couch. These are very lean years to me, trying to get a rep. And I was having a ball the entire time, and I would always look forward to that Nuyo that Wednesday, you know?
Speaking on that growth and looking back on those hungry years, how would you describe your relationship to your music once you release something? Are there certain songs and albums or eras that rank highly among your favorites from your discography, do you just quickly move on to the next project, or is it all part of the same connected narrative for you?
I feel most comfortable kicking it with the records that are where I’m at, you know what I mean? And what I mean by that is I want to cultivate a frequency strong enough that I could go in anywhere and have my frequency affect the room rather than have it affect me. But I do love kicking it with folks that be on the same wavelength as me. So right now, I’m loving Rich, I’m loving the recent. There’s a line of demarcation or delineation for me, like, [and that] was Dusty. I don’t like that record at all. Like, that record had to get right out the house. But leading up to that, there started to be a lot of deviation from who I wanted to be.
Don’t Feed The Monster was like a return to trying to have the message that I wanted to have and trying to be in touch with myself like I wanted to be, but I wasn’t as strong with a rapping because I was so weak as a person. I feel like I’m not really flipping styles until the final song on that album. There, I catch a little bit of style. I really love that art, and I feel like it was meaningful to me. I love that album; to me, that’s one of my most important albums in my career. Everything before The Good Sun was kind of a pinnacle of my immaturity for me. That was the best of me before I learned a bunch of important life lessons, you know what I mean? There was a lot of ways I had to be tested and fail in order to grow, so that I could move on as a person. I look at everything before Dusty as, “All that stuff was cool.” Like, a jam like “Couple Bars.” I love that jam, I love the writing, it’s fly, but what did I really know about love?
I didn’t know anything about love. If I brought a jam like “Not Really” now, it would be “Really.” Even though I’ll be able to integrate, I’m the same person and I keep it the same in these ways, but these are things that that have shifted. Because I’m a different person, because I’ve grown as a person, you know what I mean? The records that are resonating with me the most right now, I’m chilling here with my peoples. I got I Can’t Sell These right here, I Can’t Sell These Either right here, Rich, Still Champ, and we all kicking it. And we’ll be here. Until I shed this skin for hopefully a more advanced skin, and then I look back at those other joints. I know there’s things that I don’t understand, always. I’m trying to figure out what they are, you know?
Looking forward to the next year, what’s something that you want to challenge yourself with in 2024, and what’s something that you have been challenging yourself with that you want to leave behind in 2023?
Well, I’ve been working on using any negative emotion, whether it be fear, jealousy, anxiety, as a light on a dashboard. You know what I mean? The other day, I was in a cab right? Dropping me off at the airport. The cat, he didn’t take card. I allowed myself to get a little vexed. Not vexed, but I allowed myself to get a little defensive to the point where it broke my frequency. I feel like I could have negative feelings and emotions without it breaking frequency if I just maintain awareness, and I’m able to see what it is. I’m able to think, “Where does that come from?” And try to use it as a learnable moment for myself, you know?
That’s something that I am working on on a day-to-day basis right now, and would love to try to cultivate in 2024 to the point where I’m not even looking at anger as a bad thing. I’m looking at it as a good indicator. I don’t need to respond angrily, I don’t need to respond with any type of aggression, and it’s just awareness. So vigilant self-awareness is something that’s becoming more and more important to me. The first thing that comes in before for what I’m shedding, like, I’ve always listened to rap and I think “This is so ridiculous.” Everybody out here listening to these songs saying “You ain’t nothing, you ain’t cool.” Who they talking to? They ain’t talking to me.
It’s just so strange to listen to records of “You ain’t nothing,” you know? I would say, probably in 99% of my records, you can’t hear any of that. When I do use “you,” it’s a very specific thing. So I’m kind of naming either a behavior or a group or something like that, right? What does that say about us listening to it that we just listen to ourselves get dissed all day? But that’s something that I feel I’m starting to come into more leniency with. I’m still talking to specific energies and specific people, but before, I would have found another way to reframe it just so that I don’t play into that “you” stereotype. I’m thinking to myself maybe I can have some leniency with myself on that. Maybe it’s been a hindrance to some expression. So that’s something I’ve been letting go of.
We’ve been hinting at it throughout this whole conversation, but we are in 2023: 50 years of hip-hop. We have a whole history to debate and discuss and celebrate. As an end to this enriching conversation, what got you into hip-hop and its history? What would you show someone today if they wanted to get into hip-hop and its history in 2023 in order to inspire that same spark that inspired you?
That’s interesting because I have the same answer to both of those questions. I grew up in a very diverse area of New York City. As a kid, my uncle Sam played the sax, you know, jazz. My father loved jazz, my father worked in clubs. We used to live on top of a club called The Maurice on Queens Boulevard. It was like a rock club. We lived in a little spot above that when I was a little kid. Salsa was big, merengue. Freestyle music was big, there was soul music, disco. There was so much different music that I liked music, but hip-hop wasn’t truly my thing, you know what I mean? My father had hip-hop records, but what brought me to hip-hop for real– this is, like, in the third grade. I always did good in school, it was important. My father told me, “You got to do your homework before you go play.” That changed my life, you know, can’t go play in the building, can’t go play basketball, until you do your homework. So I did the homework, I knew what was on the test, my life changed.
As a result of that, in the third grade, I left my zone school, which I grew up in Elmhurst, Queens, a very diverse area. There’s really everything in the whole world there, so it isn’t like we’re lacking for anything. But it isn’t at all a homogeneous area. In the third grade, I was able to get into this program called the Beacon Program. I went to a completely different neighborhood, everybody was a light-skinned person. It was a very homogeneous thing. All of a sudden, I was the darkest kid in the school. I’m not the darkest cat in the world, it was uncommon to me. There was two brown kids in the school, me and Courtney Sorenson. We felt at that time, we’re kids, we’re really identifying very strongly. These days, I like good people, you know what I mean? I’m happy to find a good person of whatever variety. You cool, let’s talk about God. But at this time, we’re feeling out of place, these people don’t look like us, you know what I mean? Of course, we gravitated to one another and became great friends. And he brought in Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, He’s the DJ, I’m the Rapper.
This was in 1988, okay, I’m eight years old in the third grade. Up until that time, my older aunts, my father’s younger sisters, my uncle Bobby, my father’s younger brother, they went to put me onto Big Daddy Kane or Boogie Down Productions. But I’m thinking, “I can’t relate to that, I’m a kid.” I can’t relate to Slick Rick talking about these sexual exploits, I didn’t know what’s going on. But Jazz Jeff and the Fresh Prince was talking about school shopping and watching Nightmare on Elm Street, but the production on that album is amazing. And the thing about it is, that album brought me into hip-hop and it was not only the album being great, but that was the first time hip-hop became my identity. I saw myself as different in the environment that I was in, and I was like, “This is my music, it’s not their music.”
I went to junior high school back in a very diverse part of the city. But then I went to high school in New Hampshire. And then New Hampshire was another example of me having to leave where I’m from, to get a better education. As a kid, there were these times when I had to leave where I was from to my academic betterment. When those things would happen, hip-hop was something that made me feel connected. I would be up in New Hampshire, and I’d be like, “Dang, I’m so corny. Everybody’s in New York having mad fun. I’ma listen to Ill Al Scratch. I’m gonna feel like I’m home.” Was that telling me what home was, or was that actually what home was? But that’s when hip-hop really solidified for me.
I do love the art form and I do love the craft, but a lot of it was identity when I first began. I identified that this is my stuff, these are my folks, these are my people, you know what I mean? If anybody were want to get into rap now, I would give them that tape and I would show them that this is a cat that was one of the best rappers out at that time. I lived in Philly for four years, hosted open mics, heard stories about the Fresh Prince and how cats used to try to clown him because he was smiling and having fun. He would say, “Oh, yeah, you want to rap?” And he would shut cats down rapping. I think that was a big influence on me and the style I try to have. I want to keep it love and I want to keep having fun. But if you think you can rap with me, you know you got a better chance straightening out Porky Pig’s tail. So I would give people that tape to show them rap is about being able to rap, and the Fresh Prince knew that.
Homeboy Sandman (Credit: Misshattan)
Homeboy Sandman, thank you so much for this! Really looking forward to everything that’s down the pipeline. Is there anything else you want to add, reflect on, shout out, or anything you’re looking forward to for the next few weeks?
Peace and love! Thanks so much for taking the time to help spread the word. I do got the Patreon, we have a lot of fun on there. patreon.com, Homeboy Sandman. And I do got the email lists. I don’t be on online that much, but if you want to be on the email list, just email [email protected]. Say, “I want to be on the email list.” And we got all types of fun we be having that I be disseminated through that. But beyond that, yeah, just good looking up.
Jason Lee has been known to do some pretty big interviews. The Hollywood Unlocked personality has made a name for himself with these scoops. Recently, he interviewed the likes of Blueface and Jaidyn Alexis. Now, however, he is looking to get the other side of the story. Of course, we are talking about the likes of Chrisean Rock. Chrisean has been a huge name in social media discourse as of late, and she definitely makes for a pretty massive interview, even if you like her or not.
Chrisean Rock is currently starring on Baddies East with her sister Tesehki. Moreover, she has been embroiled in a ton of drama as it pertains to Blueface. Her child with the rapper has created lots of turmoil, however, it doesn’t seem like Blue is around very much. Instead, Rock is fending for herself, even if it has been an uphill battle. All of this has been pretty crazy to watch, and the fans want some answers. Well, it seems like Jason Lee may be providing those answers very soon.
In a recent tweet, Lee revealed that he spoke to Chrisean Rock for upwards of three hours. Overall, this is a very long time to be interviewing someone. Most podcast interviews last about an hour. Sometimes, they can be a bit shorter and sometimes they are a bit longer. Either way, three hours is massive, and we can only imagine some of the things that Chrisean is going to say. After all, Blueface has put her through a lot.
Hopefully, this interview shines to light all of the things that fans have wanted to know over these past few months. Be sure to let us know what you’re expecting from the interview, in the comments section below. Additionally, stay tuned to HNHH for the latest news and updates from around the music world. We will always be sure to bring you the latest on all of your favorite artists.
Today wore me out. Thank you 