There’s an electrifying way in which Big Boi raps, whether he’s vividly portraying his cool as the equivalent of “Freddie Jackson drinkin’ a milkshake in a snowstorm” or describing Papa John’s “ooey gooey, crispy, crunchy, mouthwaterin’” pizza. The Outkast member has thrived since the group went on an indefinite hiatus following their groundbreaking musical, Idlewild. He’s gone on to release three solo studio albums that maintained Outkast’s futuristic approach to crafting potently groovy raps. That talent extends into the corporate world, however, as evidenced by Papa John’s latest campaign, “Better Get You Some.” Accompanied by a trailer of brain-melting visuals, Big Boi pens mind-bending bars that will undoubtedly leave you craving a slice of their “ooey-gooey, extra chewy mouth-watering” pizza, topped with their newly unveiled NY Style Crispy Cuppy ‘Roni.
Watch Papa John’s “Better Get You Some” Ad With Big Boi
The partnership began as a result of Big Boi’s hometown ties to Papa John’s, whose corporate office is located in Georgia. “They called and said they had a new campaign,” the Atlanta native explained shortly after receiving a Shiatsu Massage. “And they wanted a Jedi, you know what I’m saying? A heavy-hitter.”
Needless to say, Papa John’s couldn’t find a better partner to help execute this campaign. Big Boi and the Outkast brand became synonymous with a high level of prestige earned through their consistent execution with each project in their catalog. At the root of their creative success is an organic synergy, one that Big Boi said extends to the “Better Get You Some” campaign.
“Anytime I participate, it got to be organic, and it can never be forced,” he says of Papa John’s new commercial. “I first got the clip with the visuals to it, and then, the commercial was just crazy, you know what I mean, I loved it. I was like, Okay, this is dope. It’s hypnotizing in a way the way where it just captures your attention. And when you look at it, you go and call Papa John. I mean, it gets the point across so just to be descriptive, and you know, just make it fun”
An Ode To The Dungeon
LAS VEGAS, NEVADA – FEBRUARY 09: Big Boi performs during EA Sports’ The Madden Bowl at the House of Blues Las Vegas inside Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino on February 09, 2024 in Las Vegas, Nevada. (Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)
But, more importantly, there’s a personal connection to Papa John’s that goes beyond the pizza franchise’s headquarters in Georgia and well into his formative years. Big Boi revealed that Papa John’s had been a fixture during his late-night recording sessions. “That Papa John’s been on the menu for years and years, man,” he said. A typical order, he says, would include a cheese pizza (for the non-meat eaters) and a few large pizzas with bell peppers and onions. “I try to trick myself into eating vegetables,” he says jokingly, though that combination actually speaks to his memories of being in his grandmother’s kitchen. “When she’s cooking, I can eat raw bell peppers and onions all day long,” he says. “It doesn’t even have to be cooked. But when you slap it on top of that cheese, you got a nice snack.”
Naturally, you can imagine that all those nights of White Owls and Martell struck up an appetite as tracks were being laid down in the Dungeon. In the 30 years since the release of Outkast’s seminal debut album, Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik, Big Boi and Andre 3000 have undoubtedly proven that rap is far from a young man’s sport. Sure, Andre seems more enthusiastic about flexing his musicianship than stepping in front of a mic (though when he does, it’s never a lackluster effort) but for Big Boi, that passion that drove classic bodies of work throughout Outkast’s tenure remains as palpable today. His collaboration with Papa John’s, for example, became another opportunity for him to flex his lyrical muscles.
Longevity In Rap
“To be able to surpass certain limits and be in this game for, you know — next month will be 30 years for the anniversary of our album Southernplayalisticadillicmuzik — you have to live life,” he explains. This Jedi-like wisdom has undoubtedly served as the foundation for Big Boi’s artistry, though the true gem lies in how he absorbs and retains inspiration for his solo endeavors. “You live and you experience things, expand your vocabulary,” he continues. “And anytime you make good music, it’s like, you got to paint, you paint a picture with words, you know what I’m saying? And the people go back and they might not catch everything on the first listen. So you got to drop little nuggets in there so they can kind of try to decode your messages. And I do that with everything.”
Lil Mosey first exploded onto the scene with his song “Pull Up,” which eventually lead to a move to Los Angeles. Soon, he’d release “Noticed,” serving as his first entry onto the Billboard Hot 100. But nothing can compare to the heights of “Blueberry Faygo,” which solidified his name as a mainstay in the music industry.
“Blueberry Faygo” not only took over radio airwaves all around the world but also surpassed over one billion streams to date. The song’s official music video currently hails over 328 million views and counting, in collaboration with Lyrical Lemonade. But 2024 Lil Mosey is not the same as 2020 Lil Mosey. Getting signed super early at only 15 or 16 years of age, Lil Mosey is now 22 years old and has a much better head on his shoulders. He quit the partying, the drugs, the lean, and even the weed, and now he’s spreading a positive message to his fans.
This may have had something to do with his case, where he was accused of rape back in 2021. Speaking on the situation, Mosey states, “For a long time, it definitely took a lot out of me mentally. It took a while to work through a lot of things. But where I’m at now, I look at it as a positive thing. I’m sober now. I’m more positive. I’m more of a happy person than I was before.” Lil Mosey was acquitted of all the charges last year.
HotNewHipHop spoke to Lil Mosey in downtown Los Angeles, the day he dropped his new song titled “Thug Popstar.” Read below as he discusses the new music, touring with Juice WRLD, and sobriety.
This interview has been edited & condensed for clarity.
Image via Lil Mosey
How does it feel to be releasing music again?
It feels good. I had to step back for a second. But now that I’m back, I don’t plan on stopping anytime soon. So definitely feels good.
How excited are your fans?
They’re excited. We’re dropping again tonight, it’s called “Thug Popstar.”
That’s very on brand. What can we expect from that song?
A look into the daily emotions, whether they’re good or bad. Just a look into my life and what I’m going through. Definitely with the “Thug Popstar”… I dropped a song not that long ago [“Life Goes On”], they were like “Oh, he’s trying to make pop music.” It’s like nah, I’m a thug popstar. It’s what we do.
Did you anticipate that reaction from fans?
Of course, I know they were expecting something when I dropped that, and it wasn’t what they expected. I knew it wasn’t going to be what they expected, so I expected something from my fans in a way that was like: “we want this, we want that.” I knew it was gonna come, then I’m like okay, let me give them what they want. Alright fuck it, let’s do it.
There’s a beauty though in being a creative artist, doing the sound you want to do and expanding. I don’t think that should affect your… you know?
Yeah definitely. I try not to focus on what I think people want to hear, and try to focus on what I want to put out. But at the end of the day, I know my fans are the most important part of my career. At the end of the day, as much as I want to go off and do whatever I want, I still gotta give them stuff. Just so when I do go off and do what I want to do, they’ll respect it a little bit more, because at least they’re fed. All this stuff is music I love anyways. Regardless if I put out “Thug Popstar” or if I put out “Life Goes On,” it’s all from the heart.
How is music therapy for you?
For me, music’s everything really. Especially for a lot of people growing up, you don’t really have a lot of people to turn to and talk to. For me, music has always been a therapy session for me. Like when I’m talking… “Thug Popstar,” I know it’s a fun song. But in the actual depth of the song, it definitely came from the heart. It was me talking to myself on the song. The first verse of the song was definitely me having a conversation with myself. The second verse is what I’ve been going through recently, and where my head’s been at recently. There’s some good shit on there, I’m excited. I’m excited to show everyone.
You got videos dropping for these records?
Yeah, we dropping the music video on Monday.
What can we expect?
It’s that Mosey swag, with my homie Young Tada. Shout out Young Tada.
How did your case weigh on your mental health?
For a long time, it definitely took a lot out of me mentally. It took a while to work through a lot of things. But where I’m at now, I look at it as a positive thing. I’m sober now. I’m more positive. I’m more of a happy person than I was before. Now I can really focus on how I see my life playing out the rest — I got a long time. [laughs] I got a long time left on this planet. I’m glad I had something to keep me in tact, ground me a little bit.
It’s so crazy because you were on when you were 16. You’re still only 22, which is so young. Were you ready for all that fame?
I think I was ready for it. I mean, I thought I was ready for it. I still don’t know if I was ready for it or not. I don’t know if I ever really know if I was truly ready for it. But I definitely know it’d be a lot different if it would have happened later. I just don’t know what it would be like, and I don’t really want to see it like that. It would happen the way it happened, and that was the best way it could’ve happened. I definitely have a lot of shit coming in. It’s gonna be big, so I’m excited.
You found out about the whole situation from TMZ like the rest of the world. What was your initial reaction?
I was in disbelief a little bit, it didn’t really seem real to me. Because there’s no way, it didn’t feel real. I started getting phone calls, that’s when it hit me like okay, this shit’s happening. So I turned my phone off, stayed away from the internet for a while.
I saw you say you didn’t leave the house for two months.
Yeah, there was a time… because I was in Miami. I had to fly back home, then I went back to my house in LA. I didn’t leave the crib for two months. My friend, he lived with me. He’d be going out. He’s like “Bro, they keep asking where you at?” People are telling him like, “Bro, I know Mosey didn’t. He’s not that type of person.” That made me be like okay, maybe those people… because I didn’t know. Right when that shit happened, I isolated myself. I didn’t know what the world or who the people around me was gonna say. I was scared for that. It took a while…
Image via Lil Mosey
Were you recording, or how did you get through that tough time?
The first day I found out, I was recording in the studio, because I felt like that’s what I needed. But then I stopped recording for a while.
Damn, when you can’t even turn to music…
Yeah, I wasn’t really in the mood to do that. I just started playing video games. [laughs] I was in the crib playing video games.
What did you learn from that situation?
I learned a lot. I learned that I gotta watch who I keep around me and the situation I put myself into. Because a lot of stuff like that could have been avoided if I would’ve moved a little better and moved smart, and I didn’t surround myself with…
What was the greatest memory touring with Juice WRLD?
Definitely hearing unreleased music, besides hanging out. He’s definitely a good guy, RIP. I was hearing a lot of unreleased music, that was cool. Studio, 7 am in Chicago. That shit was lit.
Image via Lil Mosey
When did you stop sipping?
A while ago. Definitely a while ago. It’s been a while. I’ve been sober for a year and a half now, off of everything.
Good for you! How do you feel?
I feel good. I feel so good honestly. Mentally, I just feel here. I can actually have conversations and shit. [laughs] Because there’s a lot of times, I’m sure in interviews and shit, I’d be sitting there high as fuck.
But that was the vibe of your peers.
Yeah, that was the culture I was in. That’s the lifestyle I was in. That’s what it was and that’s what I was around, but it definitely feels good.
With your platform, it’ll empower fans so that they too can be sober. So I think it’s very positive.
Yeah. Because I know throughout my career, I’ve definitely influenced a lot of negative shit. The other day a fan actually sent me a DM. He sent me a video of him hitting a Puffbar, some nicotine. He said “Yo, you inspired me to do this.” I said bro, please quit that shit. I’m sorry that I did that. I quit a year ago, so I said: I hope you can do it too. I didn’t like seeing that. I gotta do better, definitely.
Brooklyn Candida Rodriguez is among the younger voices you’ll hear in rap today, but her talent and perspective feel more akin to five lifetimes. As Bktherula, she mixes hard-hitting rap bangers with alternative psychedelic leanings, aggressive bravado with spiritual yearning, lifelong training as a singer with lifelong instinct as a lyricist and performer, and youthful vibrance with sobering meditation. On the 21-year-old’s brand new album, LVL5 P2, these odds, ends, and extremes manifest into what might be the most versatile, compelling, cohesive, and well-rounded character portrait in her discography so far. With guest spots from JID and Cash Cobain, plus her most adventurous material so far, there’s something here for anyone whose ear perked up while listening to the Atlanta native in the past. Most importantly, it solidifies her commitment to bettering herself, sticking to her code, and finding full artistic freedom.
During this interview, Bktherula takes us through some of her favorite moments on LVL5 P2, the people and ideas that inspire her, her newfound perspective on her maturity and approach, and how having a big music career has been both everything and nothing like she expected. These moments were broken up by bits of laughter, frantic searches for a phone charger, and sneak peeks of just how long she’s kept things in the vault. But when the “IT WASN’T ME” mastermind decides to unlock the cage, it always results in blown minds and bleeding earphones. Her sound is powerful for many different reasons, in its heaviest and lightest spaces, and all her personalities and approaches shine through on P2. Whether it’s Rue Santan, Black, Santana, Rula, Tanjenica, Tanya on the mic… expect greatness, expect idiosyncrasy, and strap in for Level Five.
This interview has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
HNHH: Welcome Bk, thanks so much for being with us! Before getting into LVL5 P2 (Level Five, Player Two), I want to kick things off with your excellent brand new single and music video, “THE WAY,” which just dropped today (Ed. Note: this interview was conducted on Friday, March 8). I know it’s only been a couple of hours, but I wanted to ask you how you feel about the reception you’ve seen so far to the single and why you think this was one of the tasters you wanted to give fans for the project.
Bktherula: I actually really enjoy “THE WAY.” I think it gives, like, a more vulnerable side to myself that I have not really given in the past. I mean, I have, but just not as much as “THE WAY,” I think “THE WAY” gives a little bit more of it, like a nice little dash. Because I gave them “CRAYON,” and I went hard with “CRAYON.” So I was like, “Alright, let me slow y’all down real quick.” Because the intro, as you know, to the album is, like, f***ing nuts. So, I just had to slow them down real quick, you know what I’m saying? So I could bring them back up.
Towards the end of “THE WAY,” I heard some conga percussion or some bongos, but I thought it was a really nice touch. I see what you mean about taking it a step further from stuff that you’ve already been doing your whole career.
Yeah, man, right? It’s going crazy. But I’m so glad that you liked it, though, because I was a little nervous.
For the years that I’ve been listening to you, your flow has always brought me to your music, which in my opinion is one of the most creative and unique parts of your work. On “CRAYON,” you rap “Record it myself, I wrote it myself, I like it, so I’ma submit it.” Can you give us a glimpse into that writing and recording process? Do you let it be as natural as possible, or do you try to make it more of this deliberate thing to hit certain pockets?
Weirdly enough… I guess it’s boringly enough, I just was born like this. *laughs* Like, I go to the studio, and then I just do it. And it’s very natural. I’m just in the studio, and my friends are just in the studio with me. I don’t really have too many people in there. It’s probably, like… I had three people in the studio with me yesterday. As long as it’s the Sony C-800G, I’m recording some fire flame. I made a song yesterday, I don’t remember how it sounds, I’m actually very excited to hear it. Yeah, it’s very boring, but it’s very easy for me.
Photo Credit: Jimmy Fontaine
I don’t know if you have the same view on it, but there’s also something that I find really meditative about your music, whether it’s the lighter cuts on LVL5 P2 like “JUST MAKE SURE” or the hard hitters like “CODE.” On P2 specifically, how did you want to balance those extremes to make the album cohesive and well-flowing?
Honestly, I wanted to just give a little bit more than what I did the last time. And that’s why I was a little bit more vulnerable on this one, you know? Because P1 was really just, like, “F**k it, I don’t give a f**k about anything, about rules, about anything.” And then P2 is a little bit more structured and more mature, more reserved, but less fearful of showing emotion. It’s crazy.
Is that something that surprised you, or was it something that you wanted to achieve?
Surprised the frick out of me. I didn’t think that I would even be okay with it. Like, usually people are, like, “Oh, my God, I like when you sing!” And I just get f***ing, like, mad as f**k because I want to f***ing rap. I like rapping and I like singing, but I love rapping. So whenever people tell me that, sometimes I get offended. Well, at least P1 did. But I get it now. That’s why I say more mature for P2. She’s more mature, she gets it.
I wanted to ask about Love Santana as a bit of a retrospective because I read that you narrowed it down to 11 tracks from about 200 that you had in the vault. Was LVL5 P2 a similar experience for you?
Absolutely. Yes, I actually have songs on there, like “INSANE,” I made that when I was, like… I don’t even know, maybe 18? I’m 21. So I made “WOMAN”… I’d say “WOMAN” was the first song that I recorded when I learned how to record myself. And that was, like… three years ago? What else… “NUN”? 18. Like, a lot of those songs. N***as don’t even know what’s coming up, for real.
Being able to get JID on a song like “WOMAN” for example, which has been with you for so long, how does it feel for you to see these ideas finally come to life?
Oh, man, oh, man. It feels like a flower is finally at its form. Like, it totally just blossomed. It’s just this fire-a** flower, it just feels good. Looking at it, I’m very excited for it to drop. I’m actually very f***ing excited. I’m not even gonna lie, kind of freaking out on the inside, like, screaming, you know? Nah, JID’s insane. Absolutely. Like, his brain is right where mine is.
Considering your roots as a singer, like you mentioned, there are songs like “Detox,” “GANGO,” the Love Nirvana EP, and “SUMMER” that paved the way for your progression in terms of mixing genres together. It’s always been a big part of your artistry, and since you’ve had so much practice with it, is there a favorite or specific song of yours pre-P2 that you think defines that specific aspect of your career, or is it more spread across the whole catalog?
I think something that really explains it is maybe, like, “PSSYONFT.” That definitely explains it, and that was on P1. It’s just, like, you never know what you’re gonna get with me. I don’t give out what anyone wants, that’s another thing. Like, you can’t expect it. Being a fan of me is kind of hard, but surprisingly I have a lot of them. Just doing whatever the f**k I want to do, and just dropping whatever I want to drop all across the board. But “PSSYONFT,” I would say, is a great song to start off with. And I like “CODE,” of course. “CODE” is, like, insane.
Something else I noticed doing research for this is that a lot of people on your social media are very appreciative of how engaged you are. You’re very communicative, and usually fanbases either want less or they want more. But with you, they just really appreciate the honesty in all of that. As your fanbase has grown and everything, has it given you a different perspective on your work and what you feel like you can and can’t do?
Yes. I think I really want to be the definition of “You can do whatever.” As long as you pray to God, like… sometimes, especially being an artist, you get pressured to do a lot of different things. But I promise, I just know that I’m going to be able to do what I need to do by just praying and just doing what I need to do sometimes. Sometimes I get yelled at and do things, you know. But what’s making this happen is because I believe in God. And that’s it. Also, the way that I interact with my fans, I’m very genuine. I don’t lie. I don’t lie, I’m not gonna lie, and I’m also not going to make music that sounds like “Tweakin’ Together” for you, either.
But that’s just because I’ve grown, and I can’t lie. I can’t wear the same fit that I was wearing in middle school. Because if I put it on, I won’t even fit, for real. So I give my fans that mindset of evolution. It’s perfectly fine. If you want to go bald next year, then go f***ing bald. The people who stay are the people that need to be there, and the people who don’t stay need to f**k off. *laughs* That’s why my fanbase is cultish. They all really like me and they all stay because the ones that have remained are the ones that understand, and the ones that leave are the ones that were gonna leave in the first place.
Photo Credit: Jimmy Fontaine
With the “Level Five” mindset, you’re very appreciative of the people that are still in Three and Four, having empathy for them and everything. But do you feel like you’re at that point as an artist where you feel a certain type of resentment towards that past work before this evolution? Or do you still have that appreciation, even if you won’t make “Tweakin’ Together” five more times?
I love “Tweakin’ Together,” if we’re being completely really honest. I love all my old songs. Well, I’m lying, I actually don’t like some of my old songs. But I love a majority of them, and “Tweakin’ Together” is one of them. I really, really love “Tweakin’ Together,” actually. It just hit ten mil, you know that? Yes, crazy. And I’m very appreciative of it. It was a great f***ing time in my life, and that song actually defines why I do what I do. Because I liked that song, I recorded the song, I liked the song, and I submitted the song the same day I recorded it. And it’s my biggest song, and I didn’t let anyone give their opinion, until… I actually just didn’t let it happen.
No one had their thoughts on it. Only me, and I dropped it. And it’s my biggest song. That’s the recipe. That is the recipe: no thoughts. Go. Just faith. Go. I believed in it so much, I just dropped it, and it f***ing went up. I don’t have no resentment towards any of my songs because, at the end of the day, I’m gonna look back at that s**t and be, like, “Aw, I was such a baby.” It’s like a book, almost.
I have a bit of a weird question, but while doing research, I found two curious interests of yours that I really resonated with personally. Do the tracks on LVL5 P2 feel more like members of your horror toy collection, or are they more like the quantum physics classes that you took with the University of Tokyo?
Definitely quantum physics, definitely quantum physics. Because, it’s just… some of them are in the (Level) Three. “INSANE” is super Three. Fun fact, I don’t really like that song. It was a compromise with me and my boys. Because my boys… Mali (Maliputyouon) and Josh (Creezed) and Benji (BenjiDidIt), Josh is my engineer. I’ve known them since I was 15. They, like, actually put me in a studio. They’re the reason why I make music. They’re the reason why Love Santana is out.
They had a studio and they let me record. But they love that song for some strange reason, and I just have a feeling that that song is gonna go so up. It happens like that all the time. Like, I know it’s gonna go up, but I f**k with them and they mix my whole f***ing album and did all my videos. “THE WAY”? That’s Benji and Mali. “CRAYON”? That’s Benji and Mali. “Tweakin’ Together“? That’s Benji and Mali. So I was like, “You know what? You guys like the song, I’ll put the song on there. because I love you guys.”
Speaking of which, I did want to touch on your great collaborations. We mentioned JID, Cash Cobain is on P2 as well, the YoungBoy single is great, multiple with Rico Nasty, Destroy Lonely… You bring people into your world in a really great way. But what are the people outside of music that inspire you to go through that process, to make your art, and to express yourself in that way?
Oh, man… Well it’s a long list. Everyone around me, especially my friends. My friends inspire me in ways that I… Lord, I just thank God every day. We have moments that just inspire me like us just laughing. We laugh all the time, I’ve never laughed as much in my life as when I’m around them. I laugh so much, and they inspire me, especially my mommy. Like, my mom and my dad, they all just inspire me bad. Everything that I do. That’s such a great question, because everyone always asks me what artists I am inspired by. And I never know what to say. Sometimes I lie, because I just want to have something to say. But in reality, I always tell them I’m inspired by life. I’m inspired by sounds.
Like, I could go into the car and hear, like, any sound and I’m like, “Oh, my God, we gotta make this a song.” We’ve been saying this inside joke, and I’m like, “Oh, my God, I gotta say that inside joke in the song.” Like, life inspires me, anything inspires me. I don’t have a specific… Like, an artist didn’t want me to make music or didn’t make me want to make music. I didn’t listen to artists and was like, “I’m gonna make music.” I just started making music. Because I wanted to. But if anything, it’s my dad. My dad used to rap, and he was in a group called Planet X. And my mom sings, so that’s probably why. But I used to listen to Skrillex, though, I will say that. I love Skrillex.
Photo Credit: Jimmy Fontaine
Before LVL5 P1 even dropped, you talked to multiple publications about what “Level Five” means to you as a mindset. I know P1 was built up over three years, but now that P2 is in the rearview, what are some new things or surprises or things that you’ve doubled down on about Level Five as a mindset that have changed since you released it?
Oh, man. It’s getting harder, it’s getting harder. It’s getting more tough to be here in the Five. Um… It really is. It’s like, I need to have patience and s**t. I need to learn how to be patient, and I need to control my anger. Seriously, but sometimes you get upset at things of the dimension. I don’t know, someone could say something and it would piss me off because I get it and they don’t. But that’s ego, and I have to humble myself because I bleed just like everybody else, and I don’t know everything. I know I don’t, but sometimes I get in my head. It’s getting harder to control it.
People think Albert Einstein was probably having the time of his life because he was smart as hell, but he was probably going through it because he knew too f***ing much. Like, seriously, it’s not what everyone else thinks. It is La La Land until it’s not. Temptation is another thing. You’re gonna get tempted by the devil every f***ing day. Every f***ing day the devil is gonna try to throw what you want in your eyes, and you have to know that that’s not what you need. So you have to get ready, you know what I’m saying? You have to be here, you have to be president, you have to be in the right mindset to be in the Five and to f***ing not crash out. There’s so many people in the Five that probably crashed the f**k out in the Five, you know what I mean?
It’s getting hard. I’m in that stage right now. Because the more fame I get, the more I have to be on my toes because I’m gonna get thrown anything. Anything, bro. People are gonna come at me, “You want money for this? I’ll give you 2 million if you sign to me.” And then I gotta remember that I can get the two mil, but then I’m going to be unhappy. I have to sit here and be like, “I can’t take that two mil.” I’m getting a feeling that I can’t take that two mils. And I have to say no. And it f***ing pains me, but it’s just my flesh. It’s not even really me for real. I gotta listen to the higher, I can’t listen to myself. Can’t even trust me.
I wanted to bring up a couple of lyrics that I really loved on the album that I think relate to what you’re saying here. One of the ones that really resonated with me off of my first few listens was along the lines of, “Flying to the Sun, been losing my feathers on the way.” Level Five might not be everything that you expected it to be, but it’s because it’s that much harder to stay in it and commit yourself to that.
Yeah, I love that lyric. I love that song, I was just listening to it this morning. Yeah, flying to the top and you losing your feathers on the way, so real. But you got to get the f**k up, you got to get off your a**. And you have to remain happy, that’s one thing. If you’re not happy with something but you’re still doing it, your life will be miserable. I tried to live like that, and it doesn’t work. I’m miserable when I do that, so that’s why I just do what I want.
Like, everyone thought “CRAYON” was going to be a B-sides song. Everyone thought it, and no one really liked it. I mean, they liked it, but they wanted “THE WAY” to drop first. And I said no. I said no because I had that feeling in my stomach, like I had when I dropped “Tweakin’ Together,” and “CRAYON” ended up going crazier than the song that I have with NBA YoungBoy. I just thought that was so funny. Because I knew it. I don’t know, I mean, it happened for a reason, obviously. Now I will be listened to more, so that’s great.
You were easily one of, if not the most underrated set at Rolling Loud Miami 2022 that I saw. If somebody is going to go to one of your shows, what’s the checklist that they need to complete before attending? What do you need at a Bktherula show?
Water. You need water, you need… you need to check your ego at the door. That’s what you need to do. That ego needs to go down. Because you gotta be prepared for anything, for real. Maybe some anointing oil. You definitely got to check that ego at the door. That’s all you need to do is drop the ego. If you could just give up something instead of even carrying stuff to my show, that’d be fine.
Water and drop the ego: you’ll have a great time. If you’re standing in the crowd, and you’re trying to act like you know my lyrics thinking you’re gonna get backstage, you’re not getting backstage. If you’re not ready for the mosh pit, you will end up in the mosh pit. So you got to drop everything off at the door, at the gate, before you get into my s**t, for real. And also be prepared to maybe even get on stage.
I wanted to wrap things up with one more question. I’ve ended other interviews before by asking about hip-hop, but from what we’ve talked about today about LVL5 P2 and more, it’s clear that you have so many other influences. What’s one song, album, artist, or thing that changed the way that you look at the genre, and what’s one thing that you would recommend to a newcomer apart from your own music that you think could replicate that feeling?
I really like Mexican Slum Rats. They’re a band from the Valley, and they’re f***ing flame as f**k. I be hitting them up, and we’re hopefully going to make music together when they get off tour. I don’t know, they do anything. They’re like… I don’t even know what to call it, but it’s just f***ing fire. Just hella instruments, and the drums are bleeding through the headphones. I really want to do that, and I think they’re inspiring me to be more, like, “F**k it.” Just when you thought I was enough, I wasn’t. *laughs* But I want to be more “F**k it” like them, because they just do whatever the f**k they want.
There’s just one song, it’s called “Mal de Ojo,” and it’s just f***ing fire. They’re just f***ing screaming on that s**t, but I can tell that what they’re saying, they feel it. I think it’s inspired me to just say what I feel in any way and just go with it more than I do now. Also, I want to add drums in my s**t, and my best friend’s drummer, so that’ll work.
Yeah, more live drums would be awesome. I don’t know if this was live, but I really liked the outro of “JUST MAKE SURE”. That gives that sort of energy that I really, really enjoyed. One of my favorite moments on P2.
Oh, my God, yes! That’s literally, like… yes, absolutely. Yeah, that’s from Sonic Major, azure, Carlton McDowell. Man, they’re great producers. They did that in the studio and I watched it. I was inspired like never before. And for “THE WAY,” too, they also did that outro. The song did not sound like that at first. None of the songs sound like they did at first, they were just basic beats. They were just like a simple, you know, layout beat, but they took that s**t and they f***ing went nuts.
Man, producers are underrated. Like, very underrated. Producers are artists, producers are the artists, damn near. Producers are the artists, like, they… Whoa, because I wouldn’t even be able to do what I do without my n***as on the side of me really making my s**t. For real, I can rap to nothing. I can… I can do this! *starts banging arm on table* I can’t do s**t else, for real! *laughs* They’re so underrated.
Is there one producer right now that you’re dying to work with?
Uh… is there a producer that I really want to work with? Oh, WondaGurl, I want to work with her. She’s so cool! She’s cool as f**k, bro. I really want to work with Wonder Girl. She’s actually in L.A., I’m gonna text her and say, “Hey, can we work?” Hopefully, she says yes. Bro, underrated as f**k. Like, WondaGurl is fire as f**k. I don’t like how they be cheating women, for real, ’cause she really flame, though. She flame as f**k. Like, I need to work for her ASAP actually, like, today. I’ma have to hit her. I need to work with her, and I need to feel her energy and really understand it. Dead-a**, I just know we’ll make some flame, Like, two girls on a track? Like, what? Whoa, that would be crazy, bro. Me and WondaGurl come out with a single? Come on, bro.
Photo Credit: Jimmy Fontaine
Well, good luck with that! Bktherula, thank you so much for this interview and for your insight. Is there anything else that you want to add or shout out or say?
Um, I want to say thank you for interviewing me. That’s what I want to say. And thank you for giving me the time of the day, because you know I’m crazy.
Balance might be the best word to describe Bas’ artistry, and we just got his best example of that yet. Moreover, he just released his new album today– his first in five years– We Only Talk About Real S**t When We’re F***ed Up. In it, the Sudanese-American MC from Queens discusses the heights of his career, the good times it’s brought, the struggles with love he still faces, and the breadth of mental and emotional tolls that this life takes on a star– and that life takes on everyone. There’s a lot to dissect from a sonic and lyrical standpoint here, with so many themes that are tackled with grace and vivid honesty over a wide variety of moods, soundscapes, and emotive pallets.
Fortunately, the Dreamville star spoke to us in this new interview about it all, and you’ll find a lot of insight into his process here. In addition, he goes over the dynamics within his legendary label and his close friends, the spirit of live collaboration, the social and humanitarian issues plaguing his family’s home of Sudan, and how he’s grown, learned, and processed his emotions through his craft. Bas is by no means an easy rapper to box in, but this conversation yielded a strong sense of constance in every style and life aspect he faces. He enjoys it all with the same level of humility and passion, and that’s a rare sight in today’s world.
While stuck in heavy traffic in São Paulo for a performance, the 36-year-old still hopped on a call to discuss his new album, talk about his favorite movie of the year, and give us a compelling slice of his amazing career. Why persevere through it all as an industry artist and deal with all the deafening noise it brings? Well, because of the balance he found within it, which makes him fulfilled, happy, and free.
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Kgotso Aphane for The Fiends
HNHH: Bas, I wanted to dive right into We Only Talk About Real S**t When We’re F***ed Up. I feel like this is very much a statement album from you, and one that really sums up a lot of your artistic values. How did the concept of the album come about, and what inspired some of the material, especially given the distance between this and Milky Way?
Bas: Probably the genesis of it was when I did “Risk” for FKJ. He kind of inspired me, for his project, he had some things he wanted to do that I found inspiration in. [Considering COVID-19], these careers have kind of grinded to a halt, like everyone else. Everyone’s routine, their social life, everything was kind of disrupted, and I just found us having these conversations that we had never had before, you know? These are, like, guys I considered my friends for 20 plus years. Brothers, you know, like family, and they were expressing these things and I was expressing these things to them. I just was like, “Wow, this is just something meaningful, this is something relatable. This is something that I want to find a way to bring to an audience.” While still kind of protecting people’s identities, but it was more so the things that we’re going through, the themes of the conversations, these moments we were going through. I wanted to find a way to approach every song kind of from that level.
Do you have a favorite song of yours from this time, whether it was in the writing process or in the recording process?
Oh, man… I don’t know if there’s one favorite. The last song I did was the intro, “Light Of My Soul,” which is produced by Boi-1da. I think I was kind of chasing that [concept] chasing it self-consciously. So I think when that one came along, it just kind of let me know that I had tied that last ribbon and came full circle. Obviously, with the outro being “Wait On Me” and everything I’m discussing on that record, I just felt like it was the perfect bookend.
Speaking of “Light Of My Soul,” I did want to ask you about a particular bar that I thought was really interesting off of the album, which was when you talk about “not blaming them boys anymore” after you mentioned that people were stealing from you and Cole. Does that resonate for you when you think about the album’s wider themes and how you were thinking about each song?
It’s funny, man, me and Boi-1da were having this same conversation. He made a statement that I just loved. He was like, “Sometimes, it’s hard not to put on the Venom suit.” You know, like, you try to be a stand up guy. You try to do as good as you can by others. But sometimes it’s tempting to feel like you’ve been done wrong, and to put on the Venom suit and let go of all those… But, you know, it’s important not to let them compromise you and yourself. Even that line, like, I’m not mad at those dudes. It’s a shame, but that’s just a weakness in people, you know what I mean?
This has been a really big year for you, Bas, whether it’s artistically or personally. When you look back at some of your favorite memories that really defined this year for you, particularly around the creation of this album, which stands out to you?
I would just say there was a lot of live music that went into this album. I did some sessions with my boy, Linden Jay. He introduced me to Lydia– well, I actually knew Lydia, she’s part of Jungle, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Jungle. They contributed a lot to this album. Lydia is on maybe five records and Linden producing, they have kind of a collective from London. We did a lot of sessions just going in and kind of doing jams. I’m writing songs in a voice note, and I’m just kind of watching them and all of what they do. It’s like a refreshing departure from getting a beat and writing to it, or someone coming in the studio and making beats.
In a sense, it was really refreshing to create in that environment. I think it pushed my artistry. There’s a bunch of times we linked in L.A., we linked in London. We ended up doing “Diamonds;” that was me using the juxtaposition of their soulful sound with a Jersey bounce that my homie Depth did the drums on. So it was kind of fun to expand my sound in that sense. Obviously, a lot of people I work with, whether it’s FKJ or Cole, T-Minus, Diesel, you know, we’ve had a rapport already. But I think every album, I’m looking for a new wrinkle, and they definitely helped provide that and inspired me and pushed me in a new direction.
The reason why I asked you is because HotNewHipHop is doing an Advent Calendar series where, leading up to Christmas, we’re gonna do a retrospective on the year with a lot of different artists, interviews, lists, stuff like that. With that in mind, what’s some of your favorite media from this year? I know you play a lot of video games, but it can be like an album, a movie, a good book… What were your media obsessions throughout the year that inspired you or you just had a lot of fun with?
Oh man, Oppenheimer. Loved Oppenheimer, that was a great cinematic experience. You know, I always draw a lot of inspiration from film. I mean, on Milky Way, I sampled a few movies. That’s just like a headache to clear; I had to kind of learn that lesson. I feel like the way directors kind of build their worlds is something I’ve always admired and try to do the same when it comes to creating albums. I like to build these cohesive landscapes. Obviously, Christopher Nolan’s a G when it comes to that, so I think Oppenheimer was definitely a very inspiring piece of media this year for me.
Gotcha. Did you do Barbenheimer by any chance?
Nah, I didn’t, honestly. We were in London doing some press when it dropped. I caught, like, a 10AM ticket to see Oppenheimer. It was, like, the last seat so we just kind of lucked up.
You’ve also been doing a lot of performances around this time. You’re in São Paulo right now, and you were recently in South Africa at the Rocking The Daisies festival with some familiar faces. What do you think is one thing about performing overseas for artists that other artists or the media don’t talk about as much? Or something that maybe surprised you about the experience of switching between.
With doing Rocking The Daisies and going to South Africa, I think Africa as a whole is just really slept on from a live show perspective, you know? I think the fans there are just as rabid, if not more excited, to see us. They have a lot less access, you know, so I guess there’s less entitlement to it. Or less, like, “seen it all before” kind of vibe that sometimes you might get in New York City or L.A., where you get to see all your favorite acts whenever you want, damn near. It’s cool to get that energy out there and just build. That’s why I brought a few of the homies last year and this year we brought JID and Denzel Curry and Westside Boogie, MixedByAli. It’s cool to see, and to show even those artists that don’t even understand their reach, that people have all that love out there waiting for them.
[This specific question and subsequent answer, via email, is from after the interview was recorded.] I’m curious about how “The Sound Of Tomorrow” came about, a collaboration with The Fiends and EngineEars to bring on other artists to perform and kick it at this festival. What was that experience like?
[Via email] We’ve long partnered with EngineEars on previous projects, such as the Seeing Sounds educational workshops. “The Sound of Tomorrow” was our chance to be a platform and bring aspiring artists to perform in South Africa, a country we’ve always valued for its high musical IQ and giant cultural footprint. Our partners at Rocking The Daisies festival shared our enthusiasm and dreams were made true.
I’m glad you brought up those tight-knit personal connections. A lighter question I wanted to ask you is about a “call for help” that you put out in June to wrangle J. Cole back inside, you wrote, “by the dreads, if you must” because he was running up five-figure bar tabs and stuff like that. How does the Dreamville crew balance out this “work hard, play hard” mentality? You all seem so close going through these journeys together and as lifelong friends.
Yeah, the “play hard” part of it, it leads to a lot of inspiration, obviously. Our music kind of runs the gamut: you might hear us do something introspective and more vulnerable, then you might hear something like “Passport Bros.” That probably would’ve never happened if me and Cole weren’t in London and Barcelona and Miami on benders, you know what I mean? So I think, with anything, our music is always going to reflect our life, and it’s always going to be honest in that regard. You want to be well-balanced in that effect. It’s a blessing to travel the world with your homies and be well-received in all these cities and just have a blast. Like, these are the moments we’re gonna remember forever, so we got to immortalize them in the music.
That sense of balance is something I’ve been thinking about a lot with this new album. You do such a great job of not just balancing things out topically, but also in the production. You mentioned Jersey, there are a lot of Afrobeat influences on here, you have your classic boom-bap cuts, you have your more dreamy Jungle-inspired stuff. Did you expect to tackle all of these genres in this way? You’ve always been very versatile, but did you expect to tackle something like a Jersey beat or something like “Passport Bros,” something like “Diamonds”?
That’s a great question. No, honestly, I think when it began, it was much more of just a slow burn. You know, the “Diamonds,” the “Risk,” the “Wait On Me.” I knew that I wanted to give it some tempo, some bounce, just just some sonic curveballs. So when I started doing the more Afrobeat-type records, and that tempo kind of opened up the space to do the Jersey bounce, to do the amapiano, it just felt like a way to get there and still remain cohesive, you know? I have songs like “The Jackie” that could’ve been on the album, but they just felt like they didn’t belong. I wanted to find a way to still bring energy and vary the sonic landscape. Everything kind of was built brick by brick, but I think in the beginning, it was just all those slow burn records.
Do you think that came about more from you talking with producers, or it was just sounds that were presented to you naturally? That you were, like, “Oh, actually, I could probably do that.”
Yeah, nah, I think the first one was “U-Turn” with my brother DJ Mo, who produced it with his partner Guy. Obviously, “U-Turn” is still super vibey like a lot of the album, but it kind of introduced the Afrobeat element. Once we had that, we were able to grow that into “Testify,” which is the amapiano production. I did that with Loma as well and the homie Herc from South Africa, from Johannesburg, and Sha Sha. They’re all part of the ecosystem of the Stay Low record label, the guys I do the festival with out there. So everything kind of happened naturally in that regard. Then once we had that, I was like, “Alright, well, let’s kind of build this section out a little more.” Obviously, I’m from New York, and I’ve been inspired by what’s going on on the East Coast with the Jersey bounce. I had this Jungle sample, and I’m like, “Well, if I did it, how would I make it my way?”
So I had the Jungle sample that they sent me. They sent me to loop and I went to the homie and I’m like, “Man, throw a Jersey bounce on this, let’s see what it sounds like.” It was cool, honestly. I would say “U-Turn” was the beginning of that whole up-tempo section. Then we built it out. I like to think of albums in acts, you know? I think that act of that album is super important. It kind of gives you that space in the middle that’s kind of a curveball without taking you out of the sound of the album. Then the last act is probably personally my favorite. That starts with “Paper Cuts” and goes into “Diamonds” and “Yao Ming” and “Wait On Me” and “Dr. O’Blivion.” Those are the mission statements of the album, those last five, six songs, you know?
I like that you get introduced to what it’s doing, you get taken on this ride, and then there’s that sobering moment at the end. It’s also kind of akin to how these convos happen, you know? Like, “Passport Bros” is kind of like that 2AM, 3AM moment where we’re lost in the good times. Everyone’s getting lit and we haven’t reached that point where we make it back to the hotel suite. It’s five, six in the morning, we’re sitting on the balcony with whatever we got left to drink. That’s when the real s**t, that’s when the real conversations really come out of us, you know? I think the album kind of mirrors that art of how those nights happen.
One thing that’s always impressed me about your music is your balance of melodic, buttery performances and rapid-fire, personal, and braggadocious verses. “Diamonds” stood out to me as a particularly good example of this. Is there any difference for you in the creative and recording process for melody and for verses, or do they both come from a similar headspace in terms of writing?
I think with melody, I don’t worry about the words as much at first. It’s about just finding the right melody that complements the music and the instrumentation. Then I can kind of devise my words from there, Opposed to something like “Light Of My Soul,” where there’s something I clearly want to say and get across, that’s going to probably be much more pensive in writing. But I think with melody a lot of times, if you’re just trying to be on your phone or in your notepad, you can miss the magic, you know? Sometimes you just want to throw the headphones on, turn them up, cut the mic on, and just kind of go with what you feel. At the end of the day, especially when it’s melody, you really want the audience to feel whatever it is you’re feeling. You want to evoke that emotion. Once you have that emotion that you’re going for, whatever emotion the music is giving you, then the words are usually not too far behind. I think the most important part is getting that melody that just feels right.
Would you say that for this album, the melodic elements came about once you had the music laid down, or did you try to plan everything out beforehand?
No, I would say all of them came from the music. I think that first things first is what the producer does, or what the musicians do. That’s why I had such a good time recording with Lydia and Linden and that whole U.K. collective of multi-instrumentalists. I can just sit there while they’re jamming out, pull out my phone, and just voice note some melodies, you know? That way, everybody can keep jamming. I don’t have to stop the session, like, I was just doing a lot of that on my phone. And then I’ll kind of deep dive into it after.
That’s an interesting process considering how easy it can be to share beats, studio sessions, verses that you record and send back, and two collaborators might not even be in the same room. You can really tell on this album when that live instrumentation is coming together because it feels like it’s pulling from so many different places that it might be harder to materialize when you don’t have that closeness.
Yeah, absolutely. It was all hands on deck. You know, some of the things I would do, they would add me into what I had heard, or counter-melodies, or just really help bring it all to life. They really helped center on my sounds and my artistry.
I wanted to mention one of your singles from the album, which I think is also among the most powerful songs. “Khartoum” is a song that you reflected on social media a couple of weeks ago on how it means a lot to you. You also mentioned that you were a little bit skeptical about whether or not the message was going to be able to cut through all the noise, which it definitely has for people. You reposted a lot of messages that you got after releasing that song, which speaks about the violence in Sudan, and about everything that’s going on. That’s unfortunately really within context with what’s going on in Gaza and so many other places in the world right now. Why do you think that it can be so difficult for these humanistic messages to resonate with audiences these days, especially within the genres that you’re playing in?
Man, that’s a great question. I mean, I wish I knew, but I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’m conscious of that, you know? That’s where sometimes, you get to like, “Man, like, do people even want to hear this? You know what I mean? Are people even gonna care, can they relate? That’s the biggest thing, because you’re making music for people to relate to. But with that song, it just felt about a higher purpose. I had to speak for people who are voiceless at this time, and it just felt like something I had to do, you know. I didn’t care about the metrics or anything of that nature. Like, we might usually pore over how did this stream first week, and anything you regularly would do with a single. None of those things really mattered. It was more for friends and family that are in that struggle. For my parents who wake up every day and deal with that depression of seeing their motherland torn apart. To my cousins, and everyone in the diaspora that feels the same way. It just felt like it was something I had to do.
Absolutely. I think it really resonated powerfully on the record. It starts off with a very melodic verse, very melodic chorus, and then you really get into the meat of things, ending off with the audio of a news report. Was that a main idea for you with that song structurally, in terms of wanting to ease people into that process? I just found it very interesting the way that you presented it by structuring out the song.
Yeah, to be honest, Adekunle Gold, who’s on that record– he’s from Nigeria, super dope artist– he came in the studio. This was, like, September, me and my guy Kel-P, we’re doing some sessions. Kel-P has produced a few songs for me, including “Ho Chi Minh.” [Adekunle] did the hook. Man, I just loved the hook, it brought so much emotion out of me. When I went to write my verse, I didn’t necessarily know what I was going to write about. But again, you always let the music dictate the emotion. And then it just came to me. As soon as… I think “Carryin’ everybody’s ills” was the first bar. That was just months of pent-up frustration and depression about the situation back home.
Like I said, seeing seeing my elders in a way I’d never seen them, speaking to friends that were fleeing the country, family that were fleeing the country, hearing the horrors of what they were going through, and not having anyone to really speak to about it on my end. It’s hard for people to relate to that, you know? So until I got to write it– I can’t remember, maybe “Live For” on Too High To Riot was the only other time I’ve really shed tears writing something. I wrote it in a small writing room away from the homies, and I had to gather myself before I even went to record it. It was just such an emotional outpouring for me. It just all came out. I definitely salute my boy A.G. and all the producers that were involved with that. They really set the template that just really pulled those emotions out.
It’s also something that the rest of the album does really well; you’re very specific with how you relate to issues that can be very general. You know, coming up through struggle, love, a national issue of violence and poverty. I wanted to ask you about how you kind of reached that specificity. I think that it’s through specifically learning about issues like what’s going on with your home country of Sudan that actually helped folks reckon with some of the very different issues that might be going on for other communities. Through that specificity, you do end up kind of reaching something universal, and I just wanted to kind of get your thoughts on that and how you think that contributes to your art.
Yeah, I think that’s why I named the album We Only Talk About Real S**t When We’re F***ed Up. I wanted every subject to be able to tie back to it. Even if it’s testified as more of like a sneaky link. Like you’re drunk-texting at 3AM and you’re trying to link with this girl, essentially. It’s still one of those things that happens in those moments. Whether it’s “Khartoum,” where that one doesn’t even speak to being f***ed up from a drug or alcohol-induced way. That’s just being being f***ed up mentally, in your soul, in your spirit. Being down bad. I wanted every song to be able to tie back or speak from that perspective. Like you said, that is relatable. Then I wanted to make sure I varied the subjects because I wanted to really give the concept depth, you know what I mean?
Everything from “Light Of My Soul,” which is me trying to maintain my better nature in the midst of continuously getting taken advantage of for my better nature. Or “Decent,” which I’m learning as I grow that there are no perfect partners. Everyone has their ups and downs. You really just want to find someone who’s decent at the end of the day, like someone who you can trust to be a decent person. All those themes and all those subjects have a root, and that’s what the album title signifies. Even “Home Alone,” where Cole is speaking on his childhood trauma of realizing at five years old that he’s the man at a house because somebody’s trying to break into his crib. I’m speaking on some of the things I went through in New York when I was running around in the streets and had an attempt on my life.
Those are really traumatizing moments, you know, for both of us. Those are convo that are almost impossible to have sober, you know what I mean? But they come out of us when our guard is down, when our inhibitions are down. When we feel safe enough or confident enough to speak on it. The majority of the subjects on the album were not easy to tackle at all, but they were incredibly fulfilling artistically.
LAS VEGAS, NEVADA – SEPTEMBER 17: Bas performs onstage during the 2021 iHeartRadio Music Festival on September 17, 2021 at T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada. EDITORIAL USE ONLY. (Photo by Denise Truscello/Getty Images for iHeartMedia)
I’m glad that you were able to find that fulfillment and work with people that, as you mentioned, really fueled that and inspired you to go in those lanes. I wanted to bring it all the way back to 2013, when you released your second mixtape, Quarter Water Raised Vol. 2. You also featured on Cole’s Born Sinner along with 50 Cent. Looking back at those days when your career was taking off and you were finding these connections and these audiences that would be so important to you, what do you think has changed the most about you as a person and artist since then? What would you say is something that has remained very constant for these past 10 years?
I think what’s changed the most is that I’m fully past my 10,000 hours. Then, I think, I had the benefit of guys like Cole, Ron Gilmore, and the producers that I was working with that had put in their 10,000 hours and were developing me as an artist. Therefore, they helped me kind of speed along in the process. Obviously, since then, my ability with my pen, my ability with my voice, my ability to implement my opinions into my sound, and being able in a sense to help produce my sound has grown. But I think what’s remained the same is, even from my earliest mixtapes, I was rapping on Jamiroquai instrumentals. I was jumping on U.K. garage. In my soul, I was always building this very expansive sound that I’m thankfully looking now in retrospect at how it’s kind of kept me out of a box.
It’s helped me build the fanbase that respects and admires the risks that I take sonically. I see sometimes in my peers, that’s not so much the case. Even if they’re dope at something new, people don’t even give them the chance because it’s like, “Yo, this is the version of you we want, the version of you we’ve grown to love, and we don’t want to hear nothing else.” I almost feel bad for them, because that’s so limiting for an artist. I think that’s one thing that I’m thankful that I did from the beginning, just kind of opening up the sonic pallet.
Obviously, this is in a very different way than what you’re doing as well, because you play with so many different genres and so many different styles and do them all in your very own way. But I can’t help but ask if you’re looking at all the really bad Twitter takes on the new André 3000 album and feeling that way.
Yeah, I mean, that’s kind of a perfect example. Even though like, man, to me, André is one of those guys who’s been doing things left of center forever. So it’s like, I’m not surprised, and he absolutely deserves to do this, you know what I mean? He absolutely deserves to do whatever he wants creatively, and I’m here for it. It’s gonna get my attention, it’s gonna get my play. Was this album for me? No, I can’t say it was for me, necessarily. But that’s what the guy wanted to do, and he deserves to do that. I don’t know what the takes are on Twitter, so I’m not really sure what you’re alluding to. But I played it. I definitely listened to it.
You can imagine the whole thing of like, “André, there are no bars, we wanted you to rap, blah, blah, blah.” It’s that kind of thing of expectations from the fanbase and everything. But I do agree that you’ve done a really good job of always presenting that genre shift. Just being very creative with it in a way that I think has pulled your fans in this really interesting way.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
I’d be remiss not to close off with celebrating hip-hop’s 50th anniversary. What was the thing that got you into hip-hop, whether it’s the music, the culture, or the history? What is something that you would show somebody who wants to get into this half a century run in 2023?
I would say, for me, Pharrell and The Neptunes. Growing up, I listened to a lot of music. I think one of the first albums I bought with my own money was Daft Punk’s Discovery. So when I saw Pharrell in that world, and then The Neptunes in that world, and then how they built their sounds in the streets from almost an electronic sound, it heavily appealed to me. But then, you know, Get Rich Or Die Tryin’, that was a big moment. I think that’s what I would play for anybody. Like, if some aliens landed from Mars next week, and they were like, “Play me one hip-hop album,” I’m putting on Get Rich Or Die Tryin’ without a doubt.
Kgotso Aphane for The Fiends
That’s a great answer, and I think those are two core strains that are essential to a lot of hip-hop today. Well, Bas, thank you so much for this! Is there anything else that you would like to add or shout out or speak about?
Nah, man, I appreciate you. Those were hella well-thought out. I’m glad, and the way you received this album got me even more excited to share it with the world.
Throughout the 50-year history of hip-hop music, Zaytoven is a pioneer who has gone through and created a revolution. However, usually, when you think of “pioneers” more times than not, rappers are the ones that get the majority of the credit for shaping the landscapes in the genre. However, it would be very foolish to not show grace to the ones behind the scenes who make it all happen. Arguably the most important piece to creating incredible music is the production. Beats can make or break how a song turns out.
Of course, Zaytoven knows how vital colorful production is to a record. Undoubtedly, he is one of the best at his craft. He does not need much of an introduction at this point in his career. He has had it going since the late 1990s and has been a major factor in ushering in the trap sound. Since he came into the game, he has helped deliver iconic tracks into the mainstream, but also for rising artists. Now nearly three decades in, Zaytoven has shifted his focus more into the Christian hip-hop subset. However, he is still working with your favorites like Gucci Mane, Quavo, Lil Durk, and all of the other usual suspects.
In our chat with the German-born hitmaker, we discussed some projects he has in the works, and not all of them are music-related. But, Zaytoven certainly had a lot to unpack on that front. He spoke about his feelings toward AI technology. We asked his opinion on where the state of hip-hop is, after Lil Yachty’s recent statements. Additionally, the Atlanta-based producer recently attended the AfroTech conference to bring his studio sessions to life. Of course, we had to talk about his most recent release, Zaytoven The Trapfather (Instrumentals). This and a whole lot more revealed that his work ethic is not stopping in the slightest.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA – JUNE 22: Zaytoven performs onstage at Black & Positively Golden Presented By McDonalds during the BET Experience at Los Angeles Convention Center on June 22, 2019 in Los Angeles, California. (Photo by Liliane Lathan/Getty Images for BET)
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
HNHH: Hello! How’s it goin’ man?
Zaytoven: I’m doing good. How you doing?
So I wanted to jump right into your solo project. It dropped in November, it’s called Zaytoven The Trapfather. I got to listen to it and I like the way you had this mafia boss-like feeling to the beats. What was your inspiration behind the project?
More than anything I remember back in the day going to the studio and giving out beat CDs. You are trying to get people to wrap on your beats. I used to go to Studio with it and it would have 40 beats on the CD. Now they all might be around two minutes and thirty seconds. And I feel like that was how I was expressing my talent and what I can do. I make so much music every day. Let me get something back to the people, like I used to do just give them a beat CD and let them just start rapping on all the beats, write songs to them or whatever, and that was my inspiration behind it.
Do you plan on getting anyone on these beats in the near future?
As we speak, big artists have already gotten probably five of the beats already.
You’re most friends and frequent collaborators include Gucci Mane, Rae Sremmurd, Shy Glizzy, and Lil Durk. You also have some stuff coming up with Quavo and Juice WRLD at some point. What can you tell us about what you have coming with them?
Man, it’s so crazy that I have some big stuff coming real soon, but it’s things I can’t spoil. And I want to so bad. It’s a timing thing like if we had this interview two weeks from now the stuff would be out or whatever. So it’s just certain things I can’t let the cat out of the bag.
That understandable. We’re looking forward to it. One of those projects that’s already been announced is your one with 1K Phew. Excited for that. We checked out “On Fire” and it sounds amazing. I love Phew’s hook. You’ve worked with them in the past. What has it been like to see his growth within Gospel rap, and also with the Atlanta rap scene in general?
I mean, it’s amazing. I play at a church In Conyers, Georgia called Life Abundantly Christian Center and we were doing this program called Gospel Cafe, and it’s almost like an open mic type of gospel night and he came and rapped and he was dope. My mom was like, ‘Yeah, I like him you need to work with him.’ We started working years and years ago. Then I stayed back and I watched him get signed over there with Lecrae and he doing his thing. And the more I just watched, I waited until the time was right to do a project with him because we have to do it because we connected so long ago on such an upcoming scale, we need to take it to a whole nother level.
For some reason, there seems to be this negative view on Christian hip-hop. Maybe people don’t agree with the message that they’re trying to convey, or whatever their reasons are. How important do you think it is for gospel rap to flourish and how it can expand hip-hop in general?
I think it’s really important. We living in a time in a generation where I think the music almost raises and teaches the kids what to say and how to act and what they should get into. And the more that gospel rap becomes cool, the more it reaches the masses of our youth and that society would be better to our youth. I think hip-hop music has probably the biggest influence on our youth than anything. That’s the reason why I’m putting my best work even with gospel music to make sure I’m in there and trying to help push that message forward.
That’s definitely an important thing and that is the reason why I wanted to ask you that is because Lil Yachty also had spoken about the state of hip-hop recently on his podcast and he said it’s in a stagnant state due to not a lack of originality. I wanted to get your thoughts on those comments.
I’ll definitely agree and I think it’s because technology has made it where everybody can put they music out on the same platform as the artists theylook up to. Even if I wanted to be a producer and I’m not really musically inclined, I can be able to do because the platforms that are making music now, it’s not technical, so I could just learn how to be technical and I can make music and I can put it out on all platforms. And I think it’s so much of that now that creativity almost got washed away. And I think and I will say it’s due to technology. Technology is good, but at the same time it waters down people that have real gift and real musicianship. So, I think that’s really what’s going on more than anything.
You were at the AfroTech Conference at the beginning of [November]. AI was maybe a topic that was discussed, or that you had brought up. Do you think that’s also playing a role in maybe the lack of originality as well?
Definitely. But we really can’t do nothing about it. So you can’t do nothing but try to be a part of it and help steering it in a right direction. But I think everything is so computer based and everything is robotic that its like how much originality can you get from there? You can’t really get a lot of it. Me being a producer right, there are different plugins and programs that made it easy for me to do this or they made it and helped me expand who I am in certain ways. But I understand how it can cripple our musicians and people that’s trying to really make it in music because it’s like this. We’re doing it for you. Who’s making up your mind for you? It’s like you don’t have to learn how to do different things because the computer already knows how to, so it can just do it for you.
Besides [talking about AI], you had a lot of involvement with [Afrotech]. What was your favorite part about participating in the event?
The fact that I got to sit there in front of a whole lot of people and preview my process of making music. For me, to be able to do that right there in front of everybody and watch me create something from scratch to the point where I allowed the people in the crowd to come up and rap to the music. Everything was just done spontaneously. I think that was my favorite part because that to me is what hip-hop is built on that. People that got talent and gifts and can show it and they can do what they own hands and they own mind.
Did any of them have any questions for you on how to get into the industry, or did you impart any advice on them in any way?
I’m gonna start a piano course. Give producers the basic things to learn and my philosophy and the way I hear and see things when it comes to producing music being somewhat of a musician. Knowing these different scales and knowing these different chords can help take you farther than the guy that’s just clicking the computer, going to put in the music together. And that’s really my aim is to help shed light on that and push people back into learning instruments because they’re gonna open up so many other doors when it comes to making music.
Did you want to expand on that at all? Do you have any details on when that’s gonna get started? How can people find it?
I’m actually starting next week on doing just filming and taping the first couple classes. So, I’m not sure I know it’s gonna be in 2024 when I release the classroom. But yeah, I start taping next week. I will announce it maybe via my social media. I’m not sure exactly how I want to announce it, but I’m definitely gonna make it acceptable for everybody to join and be a part of it. It will be a website. It’s a subscription type thing, something that you have to join and I’m really building a Beethoven community of people that really want to get in the music industry or just got the love and heart for music and want to learn and grow and build a network. Because I see that this is what most of our young people want to do. I have a son that I feel like is a real dope artist and can produce for me. I sit and watch him in my studio and he go down there and make beats and record songs all day and I listen like ‘dang you got the gift without me even shadowing you all the time. You almost know more stuff than I know.’
AUSTIN, TEXAS – NOVEMBER 13: (L-R) Fireside chat with Zaytoven and Will Lucas at AFROTECH Conference 2022 – Day One at Austin Convention Center on November 13, 2022 in Austin, Texas. (Photo by Robin L Marshall/Getty Images for AFROTECH)
Can we expect anything from him coming down the pipeline?
Yes, I’m putting his album out on January 2nd on his birthday. He turns 18. So yeah, make sure you put that out here. Zayskii is his artist name and I’ll be putting his project out and I’m excited about it because he watched me but at the same time, he’s not just trying to do it the exact same way I did. He got his own little twist and flavor to it, too.
Yeah, that’s awesome! We are looking forward to that! We’ll make sure we spread that news as soon as possible.I wanted to ask stuff relating to the end of the year. We’re coming to the end of 2023. Do you have anything coming up with family and friends?
I love spending time with my family and everything. These are the times where I really get with the family and try to stop with everything else just to take a break and bring back a new excitement when the top of the year hits. Now, I will be dropping another project called Piano Nights. This one is more piano-driven just to give people another taste or another aspect of what I can do.
Do you have any goals or any sort of aspirations personally that you’re looking to get in place and then attack next year? I know you’re also into the movie scene. Is there anything that we can expect there as well?
It’s just opening more businesses. I’ve been a barber ever since I came in the game. Me and my wife been talking about opening up a spot where I do music. She’s a hairstylist. I want to open up a Zaytown facility where people can come and get their hair done, you can record music. It’s gonna be upscale and exclusive but one of those Zaytoven spots where it’s like ‘I gotta go to Zaytoven’s spot.’ It’s probably gonna be expensive to get in there. But, it’s one of those things that I want to do next year that I definitely feel like I will be doing. [For movies] I go into shooting in January. The music-based movies is not really around and it’s a void. So I definitely want to stay in that lane and continue to create content on that level. I’m thinking, about summer next year. I want to be dropping another movie.
Jaysse Lopez is a pioneer of the sneaker space. For those who may not know, Lopez is the creator of Urban Necessities. UN is a store located in Caesar’s Palace in Las Vegas, and it is one of the most impressive retail spaces you will ever see. Upon walking through the doors, you are immediately overwhelmed with rows upon rows of sneakers in every color. Leather, suede, and nubuck overpower your senses in an alluring way that will you have browsing each row for hours.
Appropriately, Lopez describes himself as Willy Wonka and his store is like the Chocolate Factory. If you can name the shoe and the colorway, chances are, Lopez probably has it somewhere in stock. Over 10 years, Lopez has been working with consigners and building trust. This trust has allowed him to become a one-stop shop for any person’s sneaker needs. Additionally, numerous athletes and celebrities have come to him to sell their collections. Simply put, he has touched shoes that you probably didn’t even know existed.
Jaysse Lopez (Right), takes a look at some sneakers while attending Sneaker Con (Image via Jaysse Lopez)
Much of Lopez’s success can be attributed to his YouTube channel, TwoJsKicks. Lopez started the channel as a way to advertise and bring attention to his brand. Eventually, the YouTube channel took off, and it quickly grew Urban Necessities into the empire it is today. Now, Urban Necessities is seeing upwards of 7000-8000 guests per day, all while boasting one of the most diverse selections of shoes in the world.
Just like any great success story, there were some massive hardships along the way. Before opening Urban Necessities in 2014, Lopez experienced a bout of homelessness. Thanks to some hustling and just a bit of luck, he was able to overcome adversity and build what he has today. Luckily, we were able to speak to Jaysse for the latest episode of HotNewHipHop’s “12 Days Of Christmas” series.
During the interview, Lopez spoke to us about his come-up, his philosophy when it comes to retail, and he even gave us the rundown on some of his favorite shoes of the year. This is an interview you won’t want to miss.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
HNHH:for those who might be reading this and don’t know you or hearing about you for the first time, maybe just explain your background and how you came up in the sneaker game.
JL: So my name is Jaysee Lopez. A lot of people know me by twojskicks on Instagram. A couple of years ago, forever ago, I migrated from Jersey out west and made it to Vegas. In my first couple of months, I was homeless and used to panhandle on the strip and went from like panhandling and selling bottles of water to standing in line for shoes for people. Got myself in a Weekly’s job hopped a little bit, met a girl, lost a job, turned into sneakers, figured I’d buy some time till I found another job, I never found another job, right? And then, about eight and a half years ago, we opened Urban Necessities.
I joke now about the hood mall. And then we went from the hood mall to the good mall to the great mall. And this eight-and-a-half-year journey got us back to Caesar’s Palace, which is when I was homeless, I used to shower in the fountains in front of the place. So it’s kind of surreal, you know, the whole journey has been pretty wild man. And it’s a consignment shop. And what we focus on is getting people the items that they want in a safe and efficient manner. We’re getting our consigners paid, without having to go through the hardships of what is retail. Right? And, it’s been a lot of fun kind of growing this brand.
I was reading just about the growth of Urban Necessities really out of the gate. You were saying that you had sold $1 million worth of shoes in just the first three and a half months of the brand. Did that go above and beyond your expectations or did you know you would sell that much?
You know, it feels like I get asked that question a lot more now, right? Because the lights are a little different. But, you know, when I started looking at the business side of sneakers, and really trying to build something that I thought was, I could get to this, I always felt like what we were about to embark on from the very beginning was being approached so differently than everybody else. It was like, Hey, I’m opening a sneaker store. Like I didn’t want to just sell sneakers, I wanted to really get in the trenches of the culture and figure out what the best business practices are and figure out how to scale it. I’ve been in retail for so long.
And I’ve worked for some really big companies over the years with logistics and I just as I was unearthing and learning about sneakers, I just saw the flaws right like so many people that got into sneakers, like myself, it’s a passion it’s something that you like gravitate to because you’re like you know it helps you get away from whatever those deeper issues or whatever and that we all have right like to be a hoarder.
There’s got to be something wrong with you for you to just invest so much time. From day one, the first video I even put out that’s still on YouTube, where I was talking about some of my hardships in the community, I really felt like we were going to open and build something that was different. I’m thankful that as this passion project, stumbled on becoming a business, and went from small business and everybody looks at it as this big business that I’ve been able to put enough lipstick on my pig, to get people attached to what I’m doing to now turn it into a real business.
And it’s tough because the stuff that I used to love doing at the beginning, that was like, ‘oh, we could do this.’ I could just pivot and go in any direction. And so many of the ideas were so different at the beginning that they were really received well, and I’ve been so transparent with the growth and the lumps and like the hardships and the wins, and like the lessons that I think that we’ve been a really good ambassador for sneakers and the business side of sneakers for so many. I’m just really thankful for all of it.
Jaysse Lopez attends the Art Basel art show in Miami (Image via Jaysse Lopez)
When I first started getting into sneakers, you were one of the first YouTubers that I was really watching. What made you specifically want to get into the YouTube game?
At the time, it was free marketing, which was more than 15 seconds on the platforms that existed. Especially at the beginning, I was so foot in mouth and didn’t understand like, this is forever, this is representing you forever. I just focused on that one moment. And I don’t have regrets about the content. But I just wish I would have had, I mean, can’t change anything. I’m not upset with the way anything played out. But I just wish I would have had a little bit more business acumen with it. And I know that I’m removing the emotion from it. And it’s not that I don’t care in that sense, because I really do. But like, if I even now I struggle with the consistency on it. Because I’m still running a business.
The guys and girls that are jumping into this, this is their passion project, right? It’s like, how do they get in this space, and they’re representing this culture. And we’re trying to be a voice for others. We’ve had some really cool videos and some monumental moments. We’ve had some ‘I wish I could have done that a little bit different’ moments with how I went with some of the business sides of it. But Instagram and YouTube and Twitter, like they all changed the dynamic of a brand. And like I feel like I’m putting out better content now. It’s just not as much, right? And yeah, man, the YouTube was extremely important and vital to my brand.
I’m sure you must get a lot of people who will just come into the store and who probably heard of Urban Necessities just through the YouTube channel, or just, you know, the YouTube algorithm pushing your videos because a certain release was happening. Speak on how those videos really helped with foot traffic.
Oh, yeah, I mean, there are so many videos. To this day, this one video, gets talked about, it’s almost nine years old, right? Like, my most viewed video is a sneaker collection I pulled from Mayor, right? It’s got three million views almost on it, right? And there are people still commenting, I’m still reading the comments. Like I get the email notifications. The shit mattered so much. And like it every single day. There’s somebody that it’s new to, right, and that’s why I haven’t deleted any of those ‘foot in mouth’ videos.
And you were mentioning how you moved into Caesar’s Palace and you’ve got the biggest space you’ve ever had 18,000 square feet. How has it been trying to manage a store that big for the first time?
Oh my Gosh, just the most overwhelming project. It almost took me out physically. When we went in we loaded up on staff way more than I think any resellers that are not corporate have. I think we had like 50 or 60 staff members and they were dropping like flies at the beginning. And it’s not that we were asking people to do traumatizing or overwhelming work. It was just that it was all hands on deck and it was coming at us from every different direction and like a slow day was 2000 guests and busy days were like 7000-8000 guests. It’s a lot of different emotions with a lot of different people. Imagine being stressed out and a moment being bigger than you and then like, what your reaction is to that moment.
Also, it’s retail…you’re lucky to get six months out of people, no matter what you tell them what you give them or how much you give that raise. There have been all these bottlenecks that you don’t necessarily foresee. There’s no manual that says, ‘Oh, hey, you sign up for an 18,000 Square Foot space.’ And because he did this, there’s like no algorithm that you can build to yank analytics at the beginning to say, ‘Okay, well, this is how you’re going to need to play. Here’s your playbook A to Z there.’ We’re still writing it. We’re now going on year two. I’m at peace with the data that we’ve pulled, I’m at peace with the processes that we’ve built between me and my new partners. And I trust my leadership, now more than ever, so like, ‘Hey, you got enough data and information to run this correctly?
Is it gonna run 1,000,000% efficiently and smooth, and it’s like, the best well-oiled machine in the history of sneakers?’ No. But I feel confident enough that I don’t have to micromanage it anymore. And so that’s allowing me to work on bigger projects, that when we first started selling sneakers we never even anticipated.
You see, we’re opening a store in Saudi Arabia in Riyadh. If you would have told me that, you know, day one, that I would have a store in Saudi, I wouldn’t necessarily think that that would be the second, like, try at something outside for me outside of Vegas. But I felt like I’ve always wanted something in the Middle East, I just felt like it was important to have something there. And I think we’re going to be doing a lot of cool stuff going forward that just people didn’t see. And it’s because of eight and a half years of lumps.
Now, understanding and having the business acumen to know, ‘okay, well, this is what I think I’m worth and this is what I struggle,’ and then finding the right people that can articulate and delegate and create and scale with the profits that you need to be able to keep adding layer after layer after layer. It is the American dream. So yeah, man, you can see why all the grey hairs are here.
Jaysse Lopez continues to expand his brand all throughout the world (Image via Jaysse Lopez)
You were saying that you’re sort of expanding into the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, stuff like that. Just off-rip, what have you sort of noticed in terms of the difference between the sneaker culture maybe here in North America and then in Saudi Arabia?
They’re pretty hip and most of the consumers that are asking or buying or hoarding products in those regions have the ability to travel. They’re on the internet way more than we are I mean, they’re, I don’t want to say they’re in the middle of nowhere, but it takes them a little bit longer to get to the product right? Because of the logistical issues for some of these brands, and then the taxes and duties, it’s just that like, it doesn’t really move the needle for them to feed them 100,000 of whatever, so they might get 1000 of something. So it’s the same, it’s the same diet, it’s the same appetite for what we’re selling.
You know, you see all the weird stuff that’s going on with certain individuals that are really tied to sneakers. And you’re like, ‘Hey, man is like, is there still an appetite for this product from this person?’ And the answer is yes. The tougher part, and setting up over there is finding partners that could represent your brand, in the same way, and intentions that you have to stick to your core values. And then how do you get the product over there? Those were the two bigger issues, but once we found our workarounds, we felt really confident about not only signing up to do this first store but multiple stores over the next couple of years.
With the stores you have built in Vegas and now overseas…What is your philosophy when it comes to retail? Because you have so many shoes and streetwear pieces that it feels like you put a lot of stock into enhancing the in-store experience.
Retail, for it to work, and this, in my side of it, it has to be an experience that you’re there for greater than north of 30 minutes. And it’s not about necessarily getting you to buy something on the first row, but it’s more about planting the seed that says I gotta keep an eye on this on this spot. So the sneaker wall, that’s, you know, 15 rows, 156 feet, almost half a mile long, when you piece it all together. At its peak, it had over 5000 different pairs of sneakers. As we’ve gotten on, some of those one-offs that were on the wall have sold, and it’s not as many, and I’m sure my staff is thankful that it’s not over 5000 pairs anymore.
But you know, at any given moment, we have 50 to 60,000 pairs ready to sell thanks to the amazing network that we’ve built. And we do a little bit of clothing, which is Urban Necessities stuff. There are some brands that we’re going to start carrying in the store that I think are up-and-coming brands that are relevant, that are going to stay in the light for a little bit that I’m excited about carrying and that offer better margins for me to be able to keep the lights on. There’s an ice cream shop that we named after one of my Frenchies that we named BilliUN Flavors. It kind of got away from me a little bit, but we now have the time, energy, and effort to run it correctly. Imagine being able to buy candy, sneakers, and milkshakes, and win sneakers from buying candy and milkshakes.
Upstairs, I have a handful of master barbers. I have a handful of award-winning tattoo artists. And even that’s getting revamped. We’re probably going to be adding a bar up there for you know, private events and stuff. Harder-to-find stuff is going to be showcased a little bit differently. So think like the aquarium that I have. But there’s another aquarium with even crazier stuff upstairs. So it’s definitely a unique environment. I’m not playing music that you hear at H&M. It’s all rap but it’s all stuff that dates from the early 90s all the way to right now. And it’s like every direction. It’s equal east, west, north, and south. You know, I got a playlist that’s like over 6000 songs. And every Friday I’m adding new music to it.
Reggie Sergile (L), Jaysse Lopez and Esteban Sarmiento negotiate prices for sneakers valued at $8,000 – $25,000 presented by Sarmiento, Inc. during SneakerCon 2019 at Fort Lauderdale Convention Center on February 2, 2019 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. (Photo by Sean Drakes/Getty Images)
You were noting how you have over 5,000 shoes in the store at times. This means multiple colorways of the same silhouette. Multiple sizes. How do you manage to bring in staff that can handle the legit-checking process? Fakes have gotten so good these days so how do you make sure everything that comes through the store is real?
That’s such a great question. Right? The reality of it is is no matter how well-versed someone is they don’t know everything, right? So you know, when I’m in the store, I definitely try to verse myself on stuff that’s coming in. I have a group of individuals that have been around me for a really long time. I’ve kind of shared some of my best business practices and what I’m looking for. The reality of it is if it’s something that pops up that we’ve never seen, or we’re unsure of the first thing we’re doing is run into the internet.
The second thing we’re doing is reaching out to the community, whether that’s another shop or resources that we’ve built over the years through the community. You know, truth be told, if we get one wrong, and we find out that we got it wrong, we’re doing everything, not only to make it right. We hold the moment. I’ve had a few scrapes. For the number of shoes that I’ve touched, I could count the [fakes] on one hand so to speak hand. The community’s done a great job of letting us know, ‘hey, this one wasn’t right.’ Or we caught it. It’s not like 1000s, but we’re catching probably 10 to 15 fakes a week.
One thing I’ve noticed is that with sneakers becoming harder to cop, many are normalizing fakes. People will wear them with no shame like they might have done in the past. What are your thoughts on fakes and this current trend in the industry?
Well, I’ll say this, if you focus your energy on one thing, you’re going to find that or you’re going to notice that more than the other. I hope this doesn’t get taken out of context when I say it, but this is a part of the business that has to happen for the brands to understand where their flaws are. We have to do better educating the consumer where they know what these look like, what they feel like. Then the brands need to figure out a better way to create you know, CODs or the certificate of authenticity for these items. Whether that’s an NFT or RFIA, that’s where all of this is going.
I used to get really bothered by the fact that people would justify the expense or go out of their way. But I am also judging it with what I have in my pocket, judging it, assuming that everybody acts, thinks, and feels like I do. And that’s not necessarily the case. Right? So it needs to be an education. There are parts of the world where fakes is all they know. I’ve been to China for trade shows. There are facilities that the Nike and Adidas of the world were using them to create their work. But then these warehouses are left with all this machinery and employees, and they got to do something. I understand the positives and the negatives of it.
I really try to look at stuff without emotion. I’m not a fan of it personally, but it’s here and you can’t really ignore it. I just really feel that there’s a lot of people that are making these purchases without a full real understanding of why it’s wrong. But then I also understand that there are people that want to fit in so bad and need the attention because there are deeper issues there that they’re not comfortable talking about that gives them joy. It gives them a sense of belonging, and you can’t ignore or ridicule that either. Now more than ever, we have to be mindful of each other’s emotions. And I think now more than ever, we’re in a position where we can articulate it, and not feel bad about, ‘hey, this is why I’m doing stuff.’
Jaysse Lopez, owner of Urban Necessities, poses during SneakerCon 2019 at Fort Lauderdale Convention Center on February 2, 2019 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. (Photo by Sean Drakes/Getty Images)
Shifting into sneakers from 2022 to now. Maybe just tell me what were some of your favorite sneakers from the past year so far.
Almost everything New Balance 2002. As I get older, those are easier on my feet. I was such a fan. I’m such a fan of that silhouette that Shoe Surgeon and I, our anniversary shoe for the store we themed it after 2002. Tom Sachs, I like that bigger sole. The colors were easy. I’m a big sucker for earth tones. The AMM [A Ma Maniere] Air Jordan 4s were a great shoe. The Crocs that Salehe [Bembury] did…If you look this year at sneakers then look back 5, 10, 20 years, some of the things that happened would have been considered blasphemy.
Using certain colors, using certain patterns, neck faces, and patches all over a shoe. That wouldn’t have happened 20 years ago. Some of the imagery used, we would have been like, ‘Nah, man, we’re not using that.’ I think now more than ever, we’re at a point not just with sneakers, but just consumerism, where, like, if you can imagine it, it can be created. Right? I think it’s great. Now more than ever, you got people that don’t look the part they want to be the part and they’re more consumed with learning more so than the guy that looks the part.
Just in terms of brands, which one do you think is the best in the game right now when it comes collabs, new silhouettes, and just pure execution?
Well, that’s sort of subjective right? I really like New Balance. I think they’ve found their seats, but I think they found a format that they could run for a little bit. But consumers get tired and everything man so you know what I mean? For a while there, Adidas was everything, and now, Adidas can’t get one out of the infield. So I’m curious to see where fashion is taken and where marketing takes some of this stuff and I can’t wait to learn and adapt and shift in whatever direction we need to continue providing the products in a safe and efficient manner for our guests.
You just mentioned Adidas and I wanted to touch on that for a moment. With Adidas dropping Kanye, how do you think that affects the brand, moving forward?
Oh, man, what, uh, what a touchy, crappy, weird, frustrating conversation that you wish you didn’t even have to acknowledge the elephant in the room. No matter what you do, you have to acknowledge it. So I’m frustrated that one of our heroes, one of our good guys is turning into the bad guy, right? But you do something long enough, sooner or later, you’re going to be the villain. So he’s the bad guy right now. It’s very frustrating to see him be so inconsiderate of so many emotions, with the type of people he’s talking about. You know, the religions and all that other shit.
Adidas doesn’t really have much of a choice. When you’re a brand that big, you have to scale so far in advance. Right from the second somebody says something from the second every department that’s attached to the green lighting of a project or an item. It’s like at least six months of production because it’s not being just fed into your town, it’s being fed to the entire world, which is, you know, billions of people. And in some cases, some of the silhouettes are in the millions, right? So how many items were already made before this ‘foot in mouth’ moment? It’s billions of dollars. I mean, how much of a percentage of the business was Yeezy?
No matter how you splice this they’re losing, but they also own the silhouette. And from a business, the show must go on? Are there gonna be the sneaker purists that are like, ‘oh, man, I can’t wear that no more. It doesn’t even have his name.’ Yeah, sure there’s gonna be a lot of those. Those are the tryhards that are going to talk about I can’t wear this anymore. Their affiliation is with Kanye, not Adidas, which is cool, fine, and respectable.
But there are also a gazillion people in the world that have absolutely no clue about anything Kanye is saying. And they’re in a region doing their own world, where they’re not paying attention to anything. They’re still going to be able to move those units like before. He revolutionized the group of individuals that were attached to that sneakers. They essentially created the new Jordan 1, the new Jordan 3. They’re here to stay those silhouettes.
Inshan Hassan (L) and Noam Attias negotiate a sale price for a sneaker collection valued at $8,000 with Jaysse Lopez (R), owner of Urban Necessities, who offered $5,000 for the collection during SneakerCon 2019 at Fort Lauderdale Convention Center on February 2, 2019 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. (Photo by Sean Drakes/Getty Images)
Throughout the year, you’ve had so many people come through the store, whether it be consigners or buyers. What seems to be the shoe that you keep seeing over and over again?
Everybody’s favorite is the black-white tongue. Black-White Dunks have been selling wild man. We’re not tired and I don’t think we’ll ever be. We’re not tired of that silhouette and we’re not tired of that color pattern. Air Force One white on whites. I’m selling more Air Force One white on whites, there are times when we have we don’t have sizes, guests are asking us for sizes, and we’re walking right over to Nike and buying it for them. Tons of New Balances, though. Remember, Vegas is a hub and we’re seeing 2000 guests on a slow day. So let’s sat at least 14,000 people a week. The National conversion rate is like 7 percent, we’re a little bit higher than that conversion rate. So we’re selling a couple of hundred shoes a day. People from all over the world. It’s like, no, two people do sneakers the same.
At this point in your career, you have seen so many sneakers come through your door. Your collection has also grown quite a bit. It’s probably hard to be surprised or shocked anymore, but what is the one shoe that you saw that really blew your mind when it ended up in the store?
I’m Willy Wonka in the candy store, in the Chocolate Factory. I try my best. I love what I do. And I love the world that I’ve been able to create for myself. I was always into learning. History was my favorite class in school. Sneakers… it’s so new. It’s like a history class. And every single day, I’m seeing something that I forgot about, or never thought would come in. Forget the dollar amount, you know, but just the rarity of stuff. I’ve slowly become the guy that when you want to shed, you call me.
Those conversations always wind up being with people that have been pillars in their industries. A lot of rappers, a lot of athletes, and they’re seeded stuff you didn’t even know existed. So I geek out. Mike Bibby, Marshawn Lynch, some of these guys that I’ve worked with on pulling their collections. Guys that I’m about to work with.
The part that geeks me out the most when I’m talking sneakers with them is seeing which ones they nerd out on, or get those goosebumps or the hair standing up and then putting that shoe in their hand and then watching that reaction or emotion. There was a lot of them with Mayor, there was a lot of them with Joe. Like, for me, Paris Dunks… when I first started selling shoes, I never thought that I could even afford and they were only like 1000 bucks when I started selling now they’re like six figures, right?
So to have that shoe, see ‘em a few times knowing the sacrifices I had to make to buy a pair and I didn’t pay $1,000 for my pair, I paid way more. I could have bought a car. A nice car. That store has shoes from 100 bucks all the way to $300,000. And all of them are going to make you say, ‘Wow,’ in some shape, form, or fashion.
Jaysse Lopez attends Bootsy Bellows at SoFi Stadium on September 08, 2022 in Inglewood, California. (Photo by Cassidy Sparrow/Getty Images for Bootsy Bellows & The h.wood Group )
This goes into my last question which is, as someone who can pretty much get any shoe they want…
You know, believe it or not, I really still don’t feel that way. Like no matter how hard I try, there is still stuff I can’t get…
So would you say that there is still a grail out there that you want to get or do you have a grail that you finally got your hands on recently?
When I opened my business, I wrote down five things I wanted in five years, and a couple of those were shoes I was able to touch. But like most people, there were still moments throughout my career, with my business where I was living outside my means. And sometimes you gotta let them go. Right? So Kanye Air Max 1, which I know he’s been very ‘foot in mouth’ but that was such a crazy shoe. At that point in my business, I had a partner and my wife and we tell each other, ‘alright, this is our Grail list. So no matter what we’re doing, we’re all chipping in and getting each other’s Grails kind of thing. I spent money we didn’t have for mine. Then there was a big moment in the business and you just got to let them go.
I’ve had two pairs of Wu-Tang dunks. I wish I could get that one again. I pray that I no longer have to make the sacrifices that make you cry kind of thing. But I sell shit man. So I’m really learning how to remove the emotion from it. When we moved to Caesars, you know, I was partnered with a really big brand. One of the conversations was about opening a store in Caesars and the dream was too big at the time. That dream required me to sell like 1400 of my personal pairs and timepieces and this and that and it really sucked to let them go. But I get to look at probably one of the coolest stores on the planet. And one of the most monumental parts of a mall that’s like iconic you know, like it’s a fair trade-off.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s a really sort of poignant way to end. I just wanted to thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate you and what you’ve done for sneaker culture.
Thank you. I’m excited, you know. I think we’ve had enough practice over the last eight and a half years and I think the people that have been watching us up into this moment are really going to be proud and happy about the next couple of layers that are next. All of its getting more efficient, and I can’t wait to share it with the world, man. So I appreciate the platform and the opportunity tonight.
