Rhymesayers

Sa-Roc & Sol Messiah Predict The Next 50 Years Of Hip-Hop

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The Hip-Hop 50 celebrations have been a necessary reminder of the global impact of the culture. The celebrations primarily highlighted the commercialization of hip-hop, from the streets of the Bronx to a global phenomenon. However, it’s provided an incredible moment to celebrate and acknowledge the pioneers who broke through barriers to achieve such success. Still, the number of legends on a grassroots level deserves their flower, too. Rhymesayers artists Sa-Roc and Sol Messiah have undoubtedly left their mark on their culture in their own right. Sa-Roc is a formidable MC who has gone bar-for-bar with the best of ’em. This was evident in her excellent 2020 Rhymesayers debut, The Sharecropper’s Daughter. Sol Messiah is an original member of the Bronx chapter of the Rock Steady Crew. Throughout his illustrious career as a producer and DJ, he worked with legends from KXNG Crooked to JAY-Z.

The chemistry they developed over 20 years ago took center stage at Red Bull BC One Midwest Cypher in Minneapolis. Considered the largest and most prestigious breaking competition in the world, Red Bull BC One drew in a sizeable crowd at First Avenue. Hip-hop purists celebrated breaking in its purest form. Meanwhile, Sa-Roc and Sol Messiah served as the musical talent for the evening.

“Being a part of events like this kind of validates and affirms that, you know, hip hop as a culture really is a global influence around the world. And it’s here to stay,” Sa-Roc told HotNewHipHop hours before they hit the stage. Sol Messiah added, “My whole upbringing was dealing with the four facets of hip-hop. So it’s really great to see that 50-some-odd years later, it’s still being celebrated and it’s still the biggest energy that you find on Earth.”

To celebrate hip-hop’s 50th anniversary, we caught up with Sol Messiah and Sa-Roc for an in-depth conversation that dives into the past, present, and the future of hip-hop.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Sa-Roc & Sol Messiah On Preserving The Culture & Pushing It Forward

Sa-roc & Sol Messiah perform at Red Bull BC One Midwest Cypher.
Sa-roc Rapping at Red Bull BC One Midwest Cypher in Minneapolis, MN, USA on July 29, 2023. Jules Ameel for Red Bull Content Pool.

Approaching the 50th anniversary of hip-hop, how does it feel bringing all these pillars together ahead of the major milestone?

Sa-Roc: For me, it’s really dope to be a part of it. I think that my introduction to hip hop and to rhyming was being fully immersed in the culture, getting the history. So, I had a really strong foundation for the importance of what it is I was doing in terms of moving the culture forward. Being a part of events like this kind of validates and affirms that, you know, hip hop as a culture really is a global influence around the world. And it’s here to stay.

Sol Messiah: For me, it’s really important because that was one that was blessed to grow up in a culture. Initially, a graffiti artist and a B-boy, and then, eventually going into DJing. And I’m also a member of the original Rock Steady Crew, Bronx chapter, and the Universal Zulu Nation. So this is just a combination of all of that. My whole upbringing was dealing with the four facets of hip-hop. So it’s really great to see that 50-some-odd years later, it’s still being celebrated and it’s still the biggest energy that you find on Earth.

From your POVs, how would you describe hip-hop’s evolution? From where it began to see where it is today. Not just on a mainstream scale but on a grassroots level, too. 

Sol Messiah: I’ll say this: for a minute, it seemed like it was going off the rails. A lot of people realize that when money came in, when the budget came in and started to hit, it was like – I was a DJ, then for a lot of MCs at the time – they would separate us. B-boys pushed to the back. Graffiti artists were not even seen for a while. And then they separated the DJ and MC and started to focus directly on rap. But luckily, the underground or the grassroots, with us who deal with the fourth facets and just the purity of it. That’s what I see.

Just like with this festival that we’re doing now with Red Bull, I liked that they bring them all back together. We still have us that tie those together. So it evolved with ‘Yeah, we got to make some money,’ it got worldwide, but it’s still a little bit – you kind of have to push to have the other elements seen. But I think the b-boys are crazy dope, DJs, graffiti artists – it’s crazy. And the MCs – the real MCs, that is. Not the rappers but the MCs are actual griots.

Sa-Roc: I have to echo a lot of what he said. I think that I think that the mass commodification of hip-hop has definitely moved it a little bit away from the foundation and the culture as a whole. But the independent artists, the actual artists that have been doing the work to maintain that the wholeness, the holistic nature of the actual culture, you know? When you travel the world and you see you randomly see b-boy and b-girl classes in Berlin. Or you go to West Africa, you hear like, people rhyming, seeing graffiti in different countries, as well. You see that it’s still alive and thriving.

So the culture itself has taken roots and maintains a consistent stronghold on the culture as a whole. But just as we do, we grow, we fall, we rise, you know? We have our ebbs and flows as humans, the culture evolves and changes and shifts in the same way. So I’m excited that we are refocusing the attention on the foundational elements of hip hop as we approach the 50th anniversary. I’m excited to see this movement reach our highest skill level in all of these elements.

Being signed to Rhymesayers, how do you feel about Minneapolis as a hub for hip-hop compared to other major cities?

SR: I think that because it’s not like one of the cities that you immediately think of like your LA’s or Atlanta’s or New York, the scene was allowed to grow and flourish in a way that was a little bit less corruptible if you could say. So the music that came out of Minneapolis – and not just hip hop – but Prince, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, and you know, Stokley from Mint Condition and all the things that Rhymesayers brought to the culture. They have left an indelible impact on the broader culture, in the nation and around the world. But it was allowed to grow and blossom and develop a strong, loyal support group and fan base outside of this machine. So that’s a really beautiful thing.

I think you can tell that in terms of the sound and the creativity and stuff and the music. The uniqueness of the music that comes out of Minneapolis. So it’s, it’s a really dope thing to kind of be a part of the imprint of Rhymesayers, and have that artistic creativity to do the same.

SM: One thing I’ll say, we travel a lot, and we go anywhere in America. Minneapolis, outside of LA, is probably the only place where you can go where it’s not a mainstream artist, he or she will have a show with DJs and MCs, and the place will be packed from front to back. I realized that when I came here about seven years ago. I was like, ‘wow, they still loving hip hop.’ It doesn’t have to be a mainstream name for it to pack out. And people love it to hear these MCs and watch these DJs. That’s what I dig about what Rhymesayers, specifically. [They] brought and keep to the culture of hip hop in America.

As a celebrated MC-DJ/Producer duo, who are your top three MC-DJ duos of all time?

SR: I would definitely say Gang Starr. I would say… I would say Pete Rock and CL Smooth. But speaking candidly, the song “T.R.O.Y,” that’s the only song I really, like, remember solidly from them. But because it’s such a classic, I’m still gonna give it to them. And what Pete Rock has done individually, obviously, it’s amazing. But then, I mean, this might be controversial, but I’m gonna have to go with Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince. I feel like in some circles, people kind of relegate them to pop and stuff like that. But think about the impact that their hip hop has had on the culture then helping to give Philly a wider stage and what they’ve gone on to do both individually and together. So yeah, I’m going to say DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince. 

SM: Okay, so mine is first, DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince. And why? Not because we think of “Summertime” and all that. But if you go back and you look at their stage shows, they were together, they were a crew. You see Jazzy Jeff leading the way and he was actually [Will Smith’s] cheerleader. And they were a dope duo. Another one I would say is Gang Starr, Guru and DJ Premier. And mine, one of the top is Run DMC with Jam Master Jay, which is a crazy duo – well, trio.

Sa-Roc, you worked with [Indian music composer] GV Prakash on “Paranoid.” From your travels and your experience, how do you think the next 50 years of hip-hop will look internationally?

SR: I think, you know, definitely was just continue to develop and grow. I know, for myself, I’ve worked with a lot of international artists and done bilingual songs with different artists. And to me, it’s important to have that kind of dialogue to create this conversation of hip hop as a global influence. And I think the more artists do it, as we’re seeing with the blends of like Afrobeats, and hip hop artists in the States.

I’ve worked with artists in South America and stuff like that. So like, I think that as these musical genres start to blend, as we see amapiano gaining any more popularity and stuff like that, I think that it’s only going to get bigger. And I think it has firmly established its validity. But I think that once we recognize that there are all of these additions to the conversation all over the world, it can even it can only get better, bigger, and grow larger and even more important in the eyes of the world, you know?

Is there a specific scene or country globally that you’d like to see incorporate more hip-hop?

SM: I don’t know if Ethiopia has a poppin’ hip-hop scene but I would love to see Ethiopian hip-hop and see what they bring to the culture. I’m sure it exists, I just haven’t heard it. But as far as the next 50 years and the rise of it, as she said, hip hop language is spoken all over the world. No matter where we go. And even if you just go look it up, you’ll see hip hop, with all the elements. But, I think that being that we have the internet now, you’re gonna see more in a visible fashion. So that we’ll see brothers and sisters in India, we’ll see people in Pakistan, we’ll see the b-boys everywhere and MCs everywhere, in their language, which is crazy to me.

I’ll give you an example, we were in Mexico and we were riding down the street and it would be boys in the middle of the street to do and spins. And I was just like, what? In traffic? Hitting spins at the red light. And that just shows you how strong and how powerful the culture is for it to reach everywhere. You go around the world, they might not know what mainstream artists is but they know what b-boying is. They know what MCing is, they know what DJing is, you know? I think it’s just gonna grow, get bigger and stronger and more entrenched, which helps the people because hip hop is the people. It’s the grassroots, you know?

Sol, can you corroborate the story about JAY-Z giving Dead Prez a free 24 bars on “Hell Yeah (Remix)” in an attempt to sign them to Roc-A-Fella?

SM: We was just talking about this the other day. There is a writer and journalist named Dream Hampton. And Dream had the Dead Prez demo of the original song, “Hell Yeah.” She would take it and she played it for JAY-Z. And JAY-Z was like, “Yo, this is dope. This is crazy. Can I jump on that joint? You think they’ll let me jump on that joint?” And she was like, “I’ll ask them.” She went over and asked, “Can JAY-Z jump on this?” They was like, “JAY-Z? Of course, JAY-Z can jump on this. That would be amazing” Now, he went and did that, then after that is when he was interested in signing them. That’s how the actual story goes. 

And the reason I know is I know her but she literally just wrote this up and put it online the other day. But that is what happened. Because there are two versions: there’s my version, and the original version, which is slower and mine is the remix. And JAY-Z jumped on it willingly like it was nothing.

He was just like, you know – because Dead Prez, they’re well respected worldwide. They’re one of the few groups that have a message and don’t stray away from or try to cater to the mainstream. They just do straight-up revolutionary hip hop and JAY-Z wanted to be a part of that. But you know, JAY-Z has done a lot. He works with Jay Electronica, he worked with different people that you’re like, “Wait, you’re working with them?” He is the most mainstream artist probably ever right? If you think about it. One of our first billionaires, right? But yeah, that’s how he jumped on it because of Dream Hampton. 

Finally, what do you two hope and predict the next 50 years of hip-hop will look like?

SR: I think that we’re gonna see more of hip-hop in the academic space. We’ve already seen some of the leading universities incorporate Hip Hop curriculum. I’ve luckily been able to be a guest speaker in different classes and speak about my experience as an artist and my perspective as a representative of the culture. I think where we’re inevitably headed in the same way in which we talk about classical genres, you know? These artists like Beethoven and Mozart, and all the rest, are revered as this very timeless, classical kind of music.

Hip Hop has shown over and over again, it’s a classic form of music, it has a global imprint, and will continue to do so. So it will become unavoidable,  especially as we bring it back to the foundation with these celebrations where, in a sense, forcing these larger media platforms to acknowledge that, you know? Acknowledge the impact, not only on music but fashion and dialogue has social and historical conversation and commentary. But that’s what we’re gonna see. We’re gonna see more and more of these classes, we’re gonna see majors being developed, because it’s unavoidable. It’s here to stay.

SM: I think that the purity of it is probably going to come back because people will kind of get tired of watching the watered-down, corny. Whether it’s guys talking about drugs and murder, or its women talking about their bodies every single sentence, or the guy’s murdered somebody every single sentence. I think it’s gonna come back to what’s actually real, the purest form, which is talking about our situations at hand and what we deal with every day.

And I just think it’s gonna come back to the beginning. Everything runs in cycles. Chuck D said, “Life runs in cycles.” I mean, it’s literally what’s going to happen. And, you know, being more respected as a way an art form where we can get – you don’t have to be a pop artist to be able to get you some money for doing what you do. It’s nothing wrong with the culture, you know, being a DJ, being an MC, being a graffiti artist. Fashion – that’s another element that we added to it, but we also added health to it. There’s an element in hip-hop. So, I think it’s gonna come back to the roots.

The post Sa-Roc & Sol Messiah Predict The Next 50 Years Of Hip-Hop appeared first on HotNewHipHop.

Let’s Talk About Rhymesayers’ Impact On Hip-Hop’s 50th Anniversary With Slug And Siddiq

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slug siddiq rhymesayers hip hop 50
Rhymesayers/Derrick Rossignol

For much of hip-hop’s 50-year history, lots of attention has (rightly or wrongly) been lavished on three main regions: “The East Coast” (mostly consisting of New York, New Jersey, and Philadelphia), “The West Coast” (really, just LA, although the Bay Area has had moments of mainstream notoriety), and “The South” (everything from Texas to Florida, encompassing a dozen different sounds and styles). Meanwhile, since the mid-1990s, there has been an underground scene sizzling in Minnesota, just outside the national focus.

At the forefront of this culture-bending, often future-facing movement has been the Minneapolis/St. Paul-based label Rhymesayers. While multiple sources say it was founded in 1995, there’s some confusion among its own founders about when it came to be. But whenever Sean Daley, aka Slug, Anthony Davis, aka Ant (both collectively known as Atmosphere), Musab Saad (Sab The Artist), and Brent Sayers (Siddiq) officially formed Rhymesayers, they opened the door for a new paradigm in hip-hop, pioneered a novel approach to the creation and distribution of rap music, and became one of hip-hop’s longest-lasting emblems of the power of the independent label.

The impact that Rhymesayers has had on the landscape of hip-hop music and culture as a whole is often underappreciated but cannot be understated. While Siddiq and Slug, who graciously granted an interview to Uproxx to discuss their role in the past 50 years of hip-hop history, are both reluctant to posit any opinions about their importance to hip-hop, any Hip-Hop 50 celebration would be remiss to overlook their contributions. The label has been home to pillars of the indie rap scene, from Aesop Rock to MF DOOM, while producing and distributing projects from artists that pushed the boundaries of what hip-hop could be, in addition to producing the hip-hop-centric Soundset Festival, the first and longest-running of its kind.

And while Rhymesayers artists don’t often receive the same level of recognition as Golden Age pioneers like Gang Starr, NWA, Public Enemy, or Rakim & Eric B., you’d be hard-pressed to find a hardcore hip-hop head who doesn’t count at least one of the label’s artists as an influence. In this interview, Slug and Siddiq detail Rhymesayers’ rise to underground legend status, reminisce on their favorite moments in hip-hop history, and reflect on just what constitutes the forgotten sound of hip-hop’s fourth region: The Mighty Midwest.

We’re doing this on the 50-year anniversary of the official birth of hip-hop and Rhymesayers Entertainment has been a huge part of that. So Siddiq, Slug, if you could encapsulate what was Rhymesayers impact on the first 50 years of hip-hop evolution in a sentence, what would that be?

Slug: That is not fair. I’m not allowed to answer that question. Anybody that’s ever talked to me knows how I’m going to respond to a question like that. I’m going to downplay.

I’m here to be empathic. I’m here to relate in a sense of being able to observe, take it and understand it, but I know better than to give myself the agency to really speak on it. My reality is mine, and so I don’t know what our impact is on this culture that we are celebrating. I know what maybe my impact is on a specific branch of the tree if we want to talk about an impact I’ve had on a segment of MCs, or a segment of people who are attempting to do what I do.

I would say the impact I’ve had on a small portion of other advocates who have attempted to do what I do would be just I’m another one of those faces that tried to prove that you could do this yourself. That you could do it too.

Siddiq: I totally feel the same way. I mean, I think that has always kind of been part of our MO. I’ve always seen us as kind of like the working man’s addition to hip-hop in the sense of we’ve never felt entitled. I would never try to define any role I may or may not have had an impact on hip-hop because it’s had such an impact on me. I’m such a student and steward of what raised me that I can’t even wrap my head around that.

So if other people see that, if other people can glean that out of anything we’ve done, I think that’s amazing, but I don’t think I ever could. As much as I love the “you could do this too” as a sentence, it’s like I want to add all the caveats to that that I came upon because when we came up you couldn’t just do it and you had to go through some shit to be able to do it.

So yeah, it’s hard for me to wrap my head around me defining any impact we have or we have had. But I hope that we do. I hope that we have, but it’s hard for me to define that.

I would like to get your guys’ impressions of what’s changed for the better in hip-hop in the time you guys have been doing it. What’s changed for the worse? What you would like to see continue to change or evolve in the next 50 years of hip-hop?

Slug: I’m going to be one of those old heads that goes out on a limb and says, that it’s better now. When I say that, I’m not saying the quality. I remember beyond the sound, what was it about this music specifically, but also the personality and the culture of this. What was it that pulled me in and made me a true believer? And that was because, to make it humorous, it scared old white people.

It challenged the status quo. It challenged what was going on on a bunch of different levels.

And as far as I can tell, it still does that. And that’s its job. And so I don’t want to say that’s its job because I’m not here to call out anything, but I’m saying, to me, that’s a big part of what I want to see the youth have access to.

Siddiq: Yeah, I would agree. I mean, thankfully, I’ve never felt like I’ve fallen into the old-head category of just being angry at the kids. I’m very in tune with what’s going on, but I also am very connected to the Golden Era. That it was all imagination. It was all creation. There was nothing, there was no blueprint to it so everything was inventive and that was the beauty about its birth. I look at it today and I go, “Man, I don’t know that there’s ever been a more free time as someone doing this form of art in the sense of its creative energy.”

For a while, there was a box. It’s like if you wanted to be a part of hip-hop it’s like you kind of had to exist in this box. If you were outside of that box you were seen as something outside of that box. The boxes are gone. People may still want to try and debate it, but the reality is the boxes are gone. It’s a beautiful thing because, to me, it brings us back to that beginning point in some ways where you’re still here 50 years later being able to be completely innovative, and creative, and birthing new things.

How important is it to you guys to be kind of the beacon of not just independent, do-it-yourself rap, but also of those places in hip-hop that aren’t necessarily close to media centers? (This is my polite way of saying “what up with Midwestern hip-hop?”

Siddiq: In some ways our success and our existence really couldn’t have been fathomed. I mean… in some ways maybe it could because that was the spread and the impact of hip-hop. It was everywhere. There wasn’t a corner that shit didn’t seep into when we were kids, whether that was through what Breakin’ was doing, whether it was through the art form of rap, or graffiti, or whatever. These things spread across every facet of the country, the world really.

I look at the success we’ve had and I think there’s something indicative to being from a place like Minnesota, being from the Midwest, where you don’t have anything, especially not within hip-hop going on and coming out of here. You don’t have the industry per se, even though we obviously have huge musical history out of our state, whether we’re talking Flyte Tyme, or Prince, or Bob Dylan.

I think I’ve always seen it as something that allowed us to do it from a place that was authentic because we didn’t have to follow something, for one. And then two, I think also allowed us to uniquely stand out. I think being able to show that to the world and spread that across the country, I think that does then kind of relate back to that statement that Sean made earlier, “You could do this too.”

Slug: I was listening to Siddiq talk. I got to thinking about how there was a time when everybody, including myself, we all rapped like we were from New York, we had East Coast accents. Then some of us started to rap like we were from L.A. We started to kind of parrot what Freestyle Fellowship was doing, then or whatever Dre was doing.

And then down South happened. Atlanta had a sound, New Orleans got a sound, France, Paris, they were rapping in French. In Australia, they started rapping in their own accents. And as time goes on, every pocket, every scene, did finally break free from those chains of New York and Los Angeles and they started to find their own space.

This city’s no different. It did as well. I would say the main difference is that when it started to find its sound we were in the middle of that at the time. There were still plenty of groups here that sounded like they were from the South, and there were still plenty of people rapping here that sounded like they, I mean they had a New York “R.”

But you started to see a scene, a sound develop here because a couple of groups became more popular, other groups started listening, and it just does that natural thing. But I think the difference is none of the groups here ever fully, the sound never fully broke. You do see elements of the Minneapolis sound in some artists that got really big from around the country.

Over the past 50 years, we’ve all got favorite memories of what hip-hop has done for us on a professional and personal level. If you guys don’t mind sharing a couple of those, I would really love it. I would really appreciate it.

Slug: Me, it gave me identity. And that’s not to say I wouldn’t have had identity. Living in South Minneapolis and having access to this music, getting into graffiti, and socializing with other people into that stuff, gave me, I think, perspective and access to parts of my own imagination and parts of my own creativity. And I was into the Fat Boys as much as I was into Peter Gabriel “Sledgehammer.” It was all fun music when you’re nine. But as I got older, it gave me this space to go to escape from all the bullshit and get together with other people who were also escaping from all the bullshit to find ways to be creative.

Siddiq: I think the first was when I first heard “The Message,” walked down to the corner record store, bought the 12-inch, put it on, and I was like, “What the fuck is this?” I felt like I was visualizing New York in the early 1980s, and I saw everything Melle Mel was talking about. I wasn’t hearing it, I was seeing it. And I was just like… It blew my mind.

And then the other one is just completely random, but I just will never be able to get it out of my mind. I think it was Rock Steady anniversary. I don’t remember the exact year. We had went out to New York and we were just handing out CDs and stuff and MOP was playing the after-party. Okay, I… And I’m trying to remember the damn venue. It was like a second-story venue. You had to go upstairs in New York.

Just think MOP at the height of “Ante Up” in New York. It felt like we were going to fall through the floor. And like I said, it was the second floor of the venue, and you just felt the floor doing this [wobbles his hand], and I’m just… “This just don’t feel safe.” But I’ve never… Just the energy? I’d never be able to explain the energy I witnessed in that moment, in that room, to its justice. I’ll never be able to explain it and make somebody feel what I felt.