A Guide Through Houston’s Rap Scene With Paul Wall: On “The Great Wall,” That Mexican O.T & Metro Boomin Collaboration

Paul Wall has remained a pillar in the Houston community and a legend in his own right. The Swishahouse alumnus has played an integral part in developing Houston’s sound and preserving its culture. Paul Wall’s latest album, The Great Wall, released in December, is a testament to his efforts. It’s a body of work that celebrates and conserves the very attributes of Houston’s lifestyle that allowed labels Rap-A-Lot and groups UGK to affirm the South’s position in hip-hop. However, it also looks forward at the new generation of rappers — the Travis Scotts, Don Toliver, and That Mexican O.T.s of the world.

“As the sound evolved, I’ve always felt like… preserving that sound, representing for it. You know, to show the newer generation how we used to do it but at the same time, give people my age or even older a sense of nostalgia to remember that this is where we came from – our Houston roots,” Paul Wall told HotNewHipHop of The Great Wall.

At his core, Paul Wall is a historian of all things Houston. That’s especially the case when it comes down to the sound that emerged from his city since the late 80s. He witnessed the rise of Street Military and the proliferation of chopped-n-screwed tapes across the city as a teenager. Eventually, he was passed the torch, which he held with pride. However, as his mainstream success faded away, and a new crop of artists emerged, Paul Wall became an elder statesman who found as much gratification in seeing the traditions of his city carry on among the younger artists as he did when he came out the gate with Chamillionaire.

“We can still go beyond, we can expand. We can be a Sauce Walka or a Don Toliver or Travis Scott or Megan The Stallion or Beyonce or Lizzo. All of these – Maxo Kream, Tobe Nwigwe,” Paul Wall says. “All amazing artists where, all of them, you hear the influence of the Houston sound that I might have come from but you also see where they took it and they expanded it to a whole other level.”

In 2023, Paul Wall earned a new crop of fans after teaming up with That Mexican O.T. on “Johnny Dang.” His verse became a trending topic on Twitter. It served to remind the masses of the stronghold he had in the mid-aughts. Many have credited Paul Wall’s contribution to “Johnny Dang” for shaping That Mexican O.T.’s career trajectory. However, the “Grillz” rapper feels like it’s the other way around. “They don’t love him because he got a song with Paul Wall. They love him because of who he is. That’s how I know that his success isn’t attributed to me at all. I attribute my newfound success to him,” he said.

We recently caught up with Paul Wall to discuss his new album, The Great Wall, his upcoming collaboration with Metro Boomin, missing out on Megan Thee Stallion collab, and so much more.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Paul Wall The Great Wall — Via Publicist

HotNewHipHop: Talk to me about the significance of the title. Of course, one would assume that it references the Great Wall Of China. However, I wanted to know why this title felt appropriate for this body of work.

Paul Wall: It originally came from a local newspaper here in Houston, an interview I did with them years back maybe 10-15 years ago, where the headline was “The Great Wall of Houston.” I always liked that, and I originally was going to call it the Great Wall Of Texas – expand it a little bit from Houston just to Texas.

As I put it out there, the excitement started going. But when Trump became president, it was all this talk about the border wall. So anytime I would mention my new album’s comin’, The Great Wall Of Texas, people kind of look at me sideway, like it was some type of reference to the border wall, which it has nothing to do with. You know, like I said in the song with Bun B, “You know my name is Wall, but I’m known for building bridges.” That’s why I kind of took that off. I was just like okay, let me just call it The Great Wall instead of The Great Wall Of Texas. I don’t get any sound way sideways looks for that.

But really, I just wanted it to be like, the best representation of me. The themes in the songs and the music, a lot of it is just about me wanting to be the best version of myself that I can be. And I just try to convey that through the lyrics or through whatever lessons in the song that might be there, where it’s not a greatest hits kind of thing, it’s more of ‘This is the greatest version of me of who I am,’ you know?

As much as you’ve grown as an artist, this album feels like it depicts your lifestyle accurately at this stage in your life. At the same time, it pays homage to the rich history of Houston’s culture. Do you consider this album as a way of preserving the Houston culture that you grew up on, even as the city’s culture evolves with the new generation?

I love to see how the Houston culture has just expanded beyond just the monolithic culture that it was. I love that it’s expanded and that the tree of hip-hop that is Houston. Or the huge branch of the tree that is Houston now has significant branches branching off of that. The biggest reason, in my view, is the fanbase has expanded locally in Houston to be able to support all of the various styles that are here.

But in all of that, there’s a huge sense of pride to want to preserve the traditional Houston sound that I grew up in. I was born in ‘81 so from the 80s but really musically, the sound kind of started coming around ‘88-’89 with a lot of the Rap-A-Lot stuff and the Street Military, a lot of that kind of stuff. But from there, when it really started hittin’ was in the early 90s all to the late 90s.

As the sound evolved, I’ve always felt like, just like you said, preserving that sound, representing for it. You know, to show the newer generation how we used to do it but at the same time, give people my age or even older a sense of nostalgia to remember that this is where we came from – our Houston roots. We can still go beyond, we can expand, we can be a Sauce Walka or a Don Toliver or Travis Scott or Megan The Stallion or Beyonce or Lizzo. All of these – Maxo Kream, Tobe Nwigwe. All amazing artists where, all of them, you hear the influence of the Houston sound that I might have come from but you also see where they took it and they expanded it to a whole other level.

But for sure, that’s where my core, where my heart is, even with Oiler Mobb, everything we do. We call it that because that was the era we were raised in. And it’s not called Oiler Mobb because of a football team, only the fact that that was when the football team was here. And when it left, it was almost like the beginning of the end of a Houston era. So that particular portion of the Houston era when the Oilers were here in the 80s, 90s, whatever, all of that is what Oiler Mobb represents for us. It’s the traditional core Houston sound that came before. But, for sure, I love how it’s expanding. I’m a huge supporter and fan of all the new sounds, the new styles, and the new artists that are just taking it to another level.

I could sense that they’ve had some sort of influence on you on this project. “Dig These Blues” feels like something that I could hear Travis Scott on. How much are you looking towards the new generation for inspiration?

That’s why I love listening to a lot of the newer artists because you can hear their influences through what they’re saying, whether it’s with the lyrics or slang or how they’re saying something. Whether it’s the instrumentation they’re using in the beats or that they’re choosing to rap on or whatever. They’re flipping the old song like T.T.O.D. Bumpy Johnson, from the Dallas area where he’ll flip like “Diamonds & Wood” by UGK. Or [the song] he just did with Dorrough, “Star Baby,” how they flipped “Bar Baby” [by Big Moe], stuff like that.

So you’ll see with a lot of these newer artists where their influence will come from. You know, you can see what they were raised on or what inspired them. The same way that it inspired me when I heard “Bar Baby” or “Diamonds & Wood.” It inspired the f*ck out of me, too. So to see that it’s still inspiring younger artists is dope.

I love the new artists, man. Just to see everything they’re doing. And they’re fasho proud to be from Houston. Like you see Sauce Walka and Sauce Twins. The whole TSF movement is all about representing H-Town. When you see them do it, it’s them doing it in their own way. It’s them wanting to put their own stamp on Houston. Their own representation, like, ‘Alright, we want to be different.’ And I completely understand that because, when I came out originally – when I first came out with me and Chamillionaire, our goal was we wanted to be different. We don’t want to be like everybody else. We don’t want to sound like everybody else and look like everybody else. Yeah, we’re inspired by them. Yeah, we want to represent a lot of the same elements that they’re representing but we want to do it our way.

And that’s the same exact thing I see when I see Sauce Walka. He’s doing it his way but he’s still representing the same elements, the same key core morals or Houston values or whatever. You know, he’s still doing it. It’s just that he’s doing it his way. And man, I be proud as f*ck when I see him doing his thing because it’s just nice from a fan perspective. I’m so happy to see how he’s evolved. And how they, you know, he just took the torch and ran with it. He put about three or four torches together and made it a super torch.

You hear Don Oliver. Everything he incorporates, even just the tone of the sound of his voice. When he’s singing or rapping or whatever it’s called that he’s doing, it almost sounds like a Screwtape. Then, when you hear Don Toliver screwed or slowed down, it really enhances and brings out all of the flavor that he has and his style. It fasho is like, man, this is what I’m talking about.

As somebody who walked in it and came in it in the past as a rapper. I’m still doing it but I’m just saying somebody who’s done it is coming in as a fan to [walking] this path and this journey of holding the torch for however long. Even if it’s temporary. To be able to hold the torch for Houston hip hop and represent – when you pass the torch on, you never know what’s gonna happen with the torch. Is the torch gon’ go out? Are they gon’ gonna drop the torch? What are they gonna do? Are they gonna put out with a fire extinguisher?

But when you see somebody like Don Toliver doing his thing like that, man, that’s when we get hype. It’s like watching CJ Stroud throw a touchdown. We stand up and cheer for that. We get excited for that, man, because this is like it’s out of my control where it goes, completely.

You know, I didn’t I didn’t invent or create it. Like I said, I only held the torch temporarily. I’ll for sure support, you know, [provide] mentorship or just any type of support I could give to any of the younger artists, but it’s out of my control. It’s not up to me where the sound goes. And what happens to the sound is really up to the fans, and the artists that come after me, wherever they want to take it. But fasho, to see where it’s at right now, man, it’s very exciting. As somebody you know, who’s come from, the past of the Houston hip hop, even I’m still doing it, man, it’s very exciting to see where we’re at and the direction we’re going.

You and Metro Boomin recently confirmed that there’s new music coming from the two of you. What was it like working with him and when could we expect that collab to drop?

That’s somebody I’ve known for a long time. Of course, I’ve been a huge fan of him for a long time, he’s been killing it always. I always want to work with Metro, man. You know, especially when you be hearing some of the other songs he got with people, it’s like, ‘man, that boy there, he somethin’ special, man.’

We talked about it over the years. I’ve always been somebody where I don’t try to force collaborations, whether it’s with a producer or another artist. I miss out on some collaborations that way. Because maybe that particular artist or producer will have a window of opportunity to work with each other. The next thing you know, they get a new record deal and it is out of their hands. It’s up to their management and their label and they got the whole plans that they got goin’. You know, that’s just how the game goes.

I definitely try not to force it or rush like I don’t want to collab just so I can say I collab’d with you. Of course, I do want to collab with a lot of these artists like that. Oh, I’d love to collab with him but I want it to be special. I want it to be something memorable, not just [like] I just checked the box because I got a song with him or they got a song with me. That’s kind of how it was with Metro.

The first time we met, there was an energy there where we definitely felt. Like, man, we could make some dope together. But you know, neither one of us really rushed in. As time goes on, you see each other here and there, we speak on it. ‘Hey, man, this is gonna be the year man we finally gonna get in the studio.’ And then, last year was really where it was like, we need to do this. What we waiting on? We just need to just do it. Like, I know we both want the circumstances to be perfect. At the same time, why don’t we just let’s get the ball rolling on it in some type of way?

But for sure when he tweeted out something about my verse on “Drive Slow,” that kind of ignited the music collaboration to get started. Because when he tweeted that out recently like a few weeks ago, that was when I hit him like, “Man, come on, what’s what’s up? What are we doing? Send me your address, I’m in Houston. What city are you in?” I’m coming right now you. And he was like fuck it, come on.

He sent me some beats and you know, from there, I don’t know. I mean, hopefully, I would love to do a whole album with him or as much music as the computer will allow us to record. Shit, I’m trying to record on every beat that he ever made, you feel me?

I don’t know what any of the plans are. You know, I’ll 100% leave that up to him for what he wants to do or what he has or what his thoughts are. We kind of getting it going on a lot of recording of it. I’m actually in here working on it now, right here in the studio. When I’m done with the interview here, I’m about to get right back at it, working on these Metro beats.

Shout out to Metro Boomin, man. For all I know, he might have another Spider-Man soundtrack in the works. He always doing some major so you know, whatever the opportunity that he would want to do with any of it or the plans are or if everything we do, he says, “Nah, let’s just start all over from scratch.” I’m 100%, you know, following his lead and I’m just really grateful for the opportunity to work with him.

What type of production did Metro send? Soul? More trap?

It’s several beats, actually. He actually sent me several different styles. It’s almost like he sent me one or two beats of every style to see like, okay, what am I feeling? What’s gonna speak to me? You know, and and I almost feel like you know, that’s gonna be the direction we dive deeper into.

At the same time, this kind of reminds me of when I signed a record deal with Swishahouse. When Swishahouse first originally started, it wasn’t a record label; it was just mixtapes. It was two DJs making mixtapes. As I developed as an artist, I got a record deal with somebody else. Well, throughout all of that, Swishahouse became a record label and then I went back to Swishahouse as an artist signed to the record label.

When I went back to Swishahouse signed as an artist to their record label, T Farris was like, “Aye, we’re working on a compilation. Here’s a beat CD with eight beats on it. Whichever ones you feelin’, rap on. Whichever ones you’re not feeling, you don’t have to. You want to do a hook, a verse, do the whole song, do just a long-ass freestyle – whatever you want to do, do it. It’s all good. Here’s the eight beats whatever.” And I was just so excited and hungry to be working and signed as an artist on Swishahouse, I rapped on every single one of them beats, and the last one was “Still Tippin’.”

This is what it reminds me of when Metro’s like, “Alright, here goes some beats. Rap on whatever you’re feelin’, whatever speaks to you. You want to do a verse, freestyle or hook? The whole thing? Just do whatever.” I’m like, shit, I’m rapping on every one of these mothaf*ckas, like, what do you mean? You think I’m gonna let Metro Boomin send me a beat and I’m not gonna rap on it? You think I’m gonna let Metro Boomin send me a beat and I’m gonna say, “Well, this ain’t really my style” or I want something a little different. Man, whatever he gives me, I’m comin’ with it

He definitely sent me a wide variety though. Some of them I heard and I was like, “Man, I wonder –” you know, because I don’t know what his thoughts are or his direction is. Some of it, he’s just planting the seed and he’s letting me run with it, but I don’t know. He might have certain ideas but they all are – they Metro Boomin beats so you already know, they top tier, the highest.

You and That Mexican O.T. share amazing chemistry. First, on “Johnny Dang” and now, “Covered In Ice” on The Great Wall. What is it about That Mexican O.T. that makes each of your collaborations so exciting and brings out the best in you?

I mean, I don’t know, but I can’t take any of the credit. I give all the credit to him. You know? I definitely think that he for sure brings something special out of me. Me working with him, even on the song that I did on my album, “Covered In Ice.” When I first did the song – sometimes I’ll do songs like this: I hear a beat and I like the beat but I don’t know where to go so I’ll just kick a freestyle on it. So that’s what I did. I did two freestyles on it that had a real laid-back kind of flow.

And as I’m going through my song, saying, “Which song would That Mexican O.T. sound good on?” That one was like, even though my flow on there didn’t match his flow, the beat and the hook kind of was like, okay, I can just hear him going off on here and he did. He went the f*ck off.

When he sent it to me, and I heard it, I was like, “Oh, hell no, ain’t no f*cking way I’m letting my verses go out there.” So I fasho went back and redid my verses but it wasn’t 100% until after he put his flavor on it that it brought that out of me. I kept the same verse. I actually had two verses, I combined them into one and I sped it up. Like how I was rapping real fast like how he rapped. At first, it was like a real slow flow. Like a slow freestyle, just kind of like how “Dig These Blues” was. “Dig These Blues” was kind of slow, it wasn’t a whole lot of words.

That’s how “Covered In Ice” was but when That Mexican OT sent me his verse, my boy was saying, “You redoing your verse, right?” He said “You ain’t keeping them same verse, are you?” I was like, “Hell no!” When I changed it, I kept the same verses. I just like sped it up and reworded it slightly but you know it fit perfectly. So, I don’t know. It’s just something about him, with his energy, with that style.

Man, he’s been so welcoming to me. A lot of people give me credit because I’m the OG or because I came out before. I look at [like] I just came out before him. It’s not like I’m bigger or better than him. I’m an artist who came out before him. I hate when I see artists who are established or came out before the newer artists and they just hold they nuts on ‘em. They lil’ bro ‘em and make them think that you gotta like, kiss the ring and you know, they gatekeep everything. That sh*t is just so wack to me. Just because you came out first, that gives you an obligation or responsibility to show them the way. I hate when they do that but that’s just something they do and a lot of times, people will do that just to hang on to their relevance.

If you are one of these young artists working with one of these established artists and you listen to growing up all your life, you’re gonna feel like it’s an opportunity of a lifetime. You’re going to feel indebted to them or grateful to them but really, you don’t realize at the time, that these people using you. They fell off, they using you to stay afloat and that’s the first thing I told That Mexican O.T. when we was in the studio. I was like, “Say man, when this comes out, they might tell you – somebody who don’t know you – they might tell you, ‘Oh, how does it feel? Paul Wall put you on.’ But don’t worry. When they ask me, I’m gonna let them know I ain’t put him on. Shit, he brought me back.”

I mean, I never stopped. I’ve been putting out albums every year for the past 10 years but being real about it, nobody gives a f*ck, you know? I’m just being all the way real about it. I put the items out, my fan base might care. My pure diehard fanbase will care but the mainstream didn’t give a f*ck. As soon as I do a song with That Mexican O.T., now they care so shit… I can’t take none of that credit.

I hear people say, “Oh yeah, man, all you gotta do is get Paul Wall on the song.” Of course, they’re showing me love. They’re not trying to belittle That Mexican O.T. or anything, they’re just trying to give me flowers. But I got allergies, I don’t like flowers. I mean, sh*t, I feel you and maybe I did add a little flavor to the song but I did 1000 features. They didn’t go nowhere. So you can’t credit me for the success of the song.

Maybe, it’s the combination of two energies get together and spark something special. But even then, I can’t say that because when you look at That Mexican O.T.’s success that he’s having, when he does shows across the whole country or wherever he’s going, it’s sold out. He got fans with his face and name tattooed all over the body. Tons of fans with his face tattooed on their ass, on their shoulder, on their arm. I’m talking like he got a diehard fan base that loves him. They don’t love him because he got a song with Paul Wall. They love him because of who he is. That’s how I know that his success isn’t attributed to me at all. I attribute my newfound success to him.

I just made him some grillz other day. Shit, you know, of course, I never stopped making grills but usually, I really just let Johnny [Dang] handle that. You know, I just focus on my music and let Johnny handle the grill side of the business. Of course, we’re still partners in business together, and I still do it, but for the most part, I let just Johnny handle that. But ever since I made That Mexican O.T. some new grill, now they blowin’ my phone up like crazy. I’m like God damn Johnny, shit. I need an assistant again, for my grill orders. It’s getting out of control.

Man, just working with somebody like him – he’s so talented, bro. And, you know, there’s a lot of talent out there. Like I said when I talked about that window opportunity, there are a lot of artists that are on the rise whereas an established artist or artists who came before them, you might have a window of opportunity to work with them. And if you don’t capitalize or take advantage of that window opportunity, some of these artists blow the f*ck up and are like choose world-renowned, number-one mega popstars, and you don’t get a chance to work with them no more and it’s not because they don’t want to work with you. It’s because they’re signed to a record label that won’t allow them to work with you.

And I can give you plenty of examples of that – Megan The Stallion. I’ve known her before she even signed her first record deal. Just watching her come up and then to see how huge she is now. Sh*t, of course I want to do a song with her. I’ve always wanted to do a song with Megan Thee Stallion but you know, our styles aren’t necessarily similar styles so I don’t want to force something where I’m just forcing doing a song just do I could say I did a song [with her], but my window opportunity, it was a few years ago and she’s so huge [now]. She’s like Beyonce-level now, shit. Or Travis Scott or Don Toliver. These are huge mega stars, these are worldwide – Lizzo. These are icons.

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